Berke, We have no reason to suspect that the tester who stated that there was no DC at the input pins was not capable of coming to that conclusion. He would have been stretching the facts quite a bit to say that and not have equipment that would enable it to be detected. Cude and the others have been stretching the facts in order to leave a shred of doubt for their position.
The diode trick absolutely will not work and spice demonstrates this statement is true. The power being delivered by a sine wave source can absolutely be determined 100% by measuring the current flowing through it at only the fundamental drive frequency. DC and all other harmonics are not required for that determination. So, the first trick you call number 1 is off the table. I have worked with RF for many years and I can assure you that most instruments are not capable of working properly when the amount of RF needed to propagate the scam is passed closely by them in an open conductor system. The readings become very unstable and extremely inaccurate. When you physically move around the instruments, and especially when they are touched, they encounter great difficulty. This is because the path leading into the instruments due to RF escaping the conductors varies enormously. Of course the third reason to conclude that the test is above board is that Rossi is an intelligent guy. He would be ignorant to attempt an external DC supply trick or RF trick that could so easily be detected by these testers. That would immediately be the end of any game that he might be playing and his reputation trashed. It is absurd to think that he would try anything of this nature. I want to express my distaste for anyone suggesting the dumb wire tricks. Who can really doubt that the input drive power is not being modulated? The output temperature excursions exhibit the proper shape as expected and this curve matches in time the drive waveform from the mains. I do not see any room for fakery with the input power measurements unless someone was able to modify the instruments internally. I understand that the testers could choose the equipment for this experiment as further evidence. So, stolen DC power due to load rectification is off the table. This can be stated with certainty. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Berke Durak <berke.du...@gmail.com> To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> Sent: Thu, Jun 6, 2013 9:54 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:AC/DC, power, etc. On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 3:12 AM, David Roberson <dlrober...@aol.com> wrote: > I am not exactly sure of where you are going with this discussion. When I > use the term RMS source voltage, I am referring to the RMS value of the > source itself at its fundamental frequency which is the only drive signal > present. Dave, We're not talking of the same things it seems. Let's try to clear the confusion. > The input from the socket is a sine wave during the test and was looked at visually by the same > guy, so it does not make sense to consider DC voltage present. How was it looked at, though? Oscilloscope inputs have an option to select between AC and DC coupling. If you use AC coupling, you will still see a nice sine wave but you will be blind to DC offsets. An oscilloscope wasn't used; a three-phased power meter was. We don't know if the voltage input of the three-phase meter is DC or AC. > DC voltage is not seen nor present at this point according to the > written information supplied by one of the testers. Yes, it's true that we got a comment later in the discussion saying that, but it's not written black on white in the report. Apparently it wasn't enough for Cude et al. since they kept talking about DC trickery, which is why I'm addressing the issue. Now there have been two proposed modes of trickery: (1) Diode trickery: Is it possible to fool the power meter by using non-linear loads such as diodes? (2) Mains trickery: Is it possible to fool the power meter by manipulating the tree-phased power? You are saying that (1) is difficult and I agree. I believe I've shown that (2) (using low-frequency signals) is possible only if the power meter is insensitive to DC voltages. It is still highly implausible for practical and sociological reasons. It would be great to know that the power meter IS sensitive to DC voltages as that would rule out (2) in a bullet-proof way. As for HF cheating (i.e. > 100 kHz)... it would take quite an RF genius to figure out a way of passing 3 kW unnoticed over a couple of random mains wires without starting a fire, damaging equipment nor giving RF burns to anyone. -- Berke Durak
