On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 8:22 PM, Edmund Storms <stor...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > On Jun 6, 2013, at 1:30 PM, Harry Veeder wrote: > > > > Ed, > > > On Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Edmund Storms <stor...@ix.netcom.com>wrote: > >> >> Harry, you don't seem to understand the concept of work. Consider that >> atoms in a lattice are held together by a force. They vibrate and this >> vibration contains energy as the heat capacity. Is a piece of salt doing >> work as it sits in the salt shaker? No, the material is doing no work even >> though a force is present and atoms are vibrating. Steady-state conditions, >> of which this is an example, do not involve work. Work is based on a net >> change in position as result of applied force. The salt sits still. It does >> not move. There is no net change in position of the atoms. If they move in >> one direction, they immediately move just as much in the opposite >> direction. If you want to imagine work being done during the first motion, >> it is immediately undone by the second motion. No net change has resulted. >> The system is fixed in space and it is not doing work. >> >> > > I agree this the case when the average separation distance between the > protons is steady. > > >> Consequently, the NiH or PdD are doing no work by simply existing. On >> the other hand, if the NAE forms, then energy can be released from the >> nucleus as an emitted photon. This energy was trapped before the photon was >> released. Once photons are released, they are gradually absorbed by the >> surrounding material as they pass through, thereby causing local heating. >> This heating can be made to do work. No work was done before this heating >> occurred. >> >> > Hypothetically speaking, do you agree that if the protons were to > gradually get closer without photon emission that the lattice would tend to > cool ? > > > Protons can not get closer for no reason. You have to ask what is causing > the reduction in distance. The distance can be reduced by applying > pressure, which causes the temperature to increase because work is being > done on the system. The distance can be reduced by cooling, but in this > case, the cooling is a cause rather than a result. A phase change can be > caused, which will release energy. Events only occur spontaneously in a > system because energy is released. Any event that would actually happen to > bring the protons closer MUST release energy. Otherwise, it will not > happen. > > > Ed, Logically speaking, if spontaneous emission is a sufficient cause and work is not a necessary cause, then the hydroton could be chilled to absolute zero and gradually shrink by spontaneously emitting photons. On the other hand if spontaneous emission is essential but not sufficient then some work is necessary. Spontaneous emission in this regard would serve to maintain the distance reduced through work. It would be like climbing an icy slope without the need to expend energy to maintain traction. If the latter is true then hot fusion and cold fusion do not differ in absolute terms. It is not that cold fusion depends on spontaneity and hot fusion doesn't. In the case of hot fusion, although a great deal of work is performed, work is not a sufficient cause since one big spontaneous emission is required to achieve fusion. The difference between hot and cold fusion is in the mix of time, work and spontaneity. Harry Harry
