cold fusion can be distinguished from hot fusion by the three "miracles"
http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/Theories/TakahashiTheory.shtml#miracles Harry On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Robert Dorr <rod...@comcast.net> wrote: > > Ed and Axil, > > Maybe it would be nice if we could define "Cold Fusion", "LENR" , as > fusion at room temperature that only requires the addition of heat, below > let's say 1000 degrees centigrade and possibly some pressure to start the > fusion process. Any other type of fusion that requires a high energy > process such as a high energy ion beam, that was used in the experiment > being discussed here, would be considered a form of "hot" fusion. Just an > thought. > > Bob > > At 09:15 AM 7/7/2013, you wrote: > > My point Axil, is that the authors have no idea what they are talking > about. This confusion is common and results in a great deal of confusion > about how cold fusion works. Unless this confusion is eliminated from > discussion, no agreement is possible. This paper simply adds to the > confusion, which many other papers have done as well. > > Ed > On Jul 7, 2013, at 10:08 AM, Axil Axil wrote: > > The paper says that the experimenters are claiming cold fusion. There is > no mixing of fusion definitions involved in this paper to my understanding > of it. > > > On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 11:55 AM, Edmund Storms <stor...@ix.netcom.com> > wrote: > That is not a useful criteria because the Lawson criteria applies to a > plasma and to a reaction that results in the hot fusion products, i.e. > neutrons, tritium, etc. Cold fusion does not occur in plasma and results in > helium without kinetic energy. The reaction is defined as LENR only if the > conditions and reaction products fit the conditions on which the definition > is based. You are not free to change the definition to suit your personal > beliefs. > > Ed > > > > On Jul 7, 2013, at 9:29 AM, Axil Axil wrote: > > I am drawing a distinction between hot fusion and LENR in terms of the > "Lawson criterion". Specifically, if a fusion reaction cannot be > characterized in terms of plasma density, plasma confinement time and > plasma temperature, then the reaction is LENR. > > > On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hot fusion is a nuclear reaction in which two or more atomic nuclei > collide at very high speed and join to form a new type of atomic nucleus of > compressing matter to high temperatures at high densities as defined by the > to the Lawson criterion, > In nuclear fusion research, the Lawson criterion, first derived on fusion > reactors (initially classified) by John D. Lawson in 1955 and published in > 1957, is an important general measure of a system that defines the > conditions needed for a fusion reactor to reach ignition, that is, that the > heating of the plasma by the products of the fusion reactions is sufficient > to maintain the temperature of the plasma against all losses without > external power input. As originally formulated the Lawson criterion gives a > minimum required value for the product of the plasma (electron) density ne > and the "energy confinement time" . Later analyses suggested that a more > useful figure of merit is the "triple product" of density, confinement > time, and plasma temperature T. The triple product also has a minimum > required value, and the name "Lawson criterion" often refers to this > inequality. > You are consistent at least; you had the same mindset as demonstrated > here when you described the LeClair experiment as some other type of hot > fusion. > The LeClair experiment is demonstrating a LENR reaction no matter what > LeClair thinks is causing it. > > > > > On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 10:27 AM, Edmund Storms <stor...@ix.netcom.com> > wrote: > If we cannot even agree about what the term LENR means or which > phenomenon it describes, I see no hope in arriving at any common > understanding. Please, can you make an effort to agree on some basic ideas > so that the discussion can move forward? We are dealing with two different > phenomenon. One uses high applied energy from various sources and the other > requires no applied energy. One results in neutrons when deuterium is used, > The other results in helium when deuterium is used. Can you at least > acknowledge that these two different reactions occur? > > Ed > > On Jul 7, 2013, at 8:20 AM, Axil Axil wrote: > > It seems to me that the reaction mechanism of the experiment referenced > in this thread is electrostatic in nature relating to high voltage > causation of fusion. > > > To draw a comparison, this is identical to the mechanism used in the > Proton-21 experimental series. > > > Since Proton-21 is considered a cold fusion or more properly termed a LENR > experiment, so to this referenced experiment should be termed a LENR > experiment. > > > On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Edmund Storms <stor...@ix.netcom.com> > wrote: > This paper makes the common mistake of mixing hot- and cold-fusion. > These are two separate and independent phenomenon. They are not related > except both are nuclear reactions involving fusion. However, the > conditions required for initiation and the nuclear products are entirely > different. As long as hot- and cold-fusion are considered in the same > discussion, no progress will be made in understanding cold fusion. > > Ed > > On Jul 7, 2013, at 2:31 AM, David ledin wrote: > > Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment > > http://fire.pppl.gov/cyrstal_fusion_nature.pdf > > > > > > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2013.0.3345 / Virus Database: 3204/6471 - Release Date: 07/07/13 > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2013.0.3345 / Virus Database: 3204/6471 - Release Date: 07/07/13 >
