Alain, Math is useless because it is based on conventional mechanisms. The process CAN NOT occur in a lattice without violating the laws of thermodynamics. The p+e+p is the only form that can also explain tritium production. These requirements limit what is possible. Please take them into account.
Ed Storms. Sent from my iPad > On Feb 13, 2014, at 5:03 PM, Alain Sepeda <alain.sep...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Seing the idea of p+e+p plus the fact it can only happen in lattice, in some > very specific situations, I naturally think about geometry, symmetry... > > the error of free space nuclear physicist was to think in free space. > > It seems Takahashi have similar ideas, but with different details... > > and symmetry can forbid some events, why not p+p? now have to check the > math... > > > > > 2014-02-13 23:57 GMT+01:00 Edmund Storms <stor...@ix.netcom.com>: >> Jones, you keep saying no theory explains LENR and keep suggesting reasons >> to reject while suggesting your own explanation that is isolated to one part >> of the process. On the other hand, I suggest a comprehensive mechanism that >> not only can explain all observations wthout adhoc assumptions but can >> predict many new behaviors and where to look for the NAE. Is a model that >> can do this not worth considering seriously rather than reject based on >> incomplete understanding and arbitrary reasons? >> >> Ed Storms >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On Feb 13, 2014, at 3:02 PM, "Jones Beene" <jone...@pacbell.net> wrote: >>> >>> From: H Veeder >>> >>> (this also answers Robin’s more recent posting) >>> >>> >>> >> The most elegant answer begins with the obvious assertion that there are >>> >> no >>> gammas ab initio, which means that no reaction of the kind which your theory >>> proposes can be valid because gammas are expected. >>> >>> > RvS: Actually not only would I not expect to detect any gammas from a >>> > p-e-p >>> reaction, I wouldn't expect to detect any energy at all. That's because the >>> energy of the p-e-p reaction is normally carried away by the neutrino, which >>> is almost undetectable. >>> >>> JB: the p+p reaction produces a positron, which annihilates with an >>> electron producing 2 gammas. The net energy is over 1 MeV and easily >>> detectable. >>> >>> >>> >>> Electron capture is real, but seldom by a proton at low energy. There is a >>> real reaction in physics, but the ratio of that to p+p is 400:1 … so we >>> have the insurmountable problem of exclusivity (see below). >>> >>> >>> >>> HV: The process of p-e-p fusion is suppose to be different from the process >>> of p-p fusion. The outcome may be the same, but the processes differ. >>> >>> >>> >>> JB: Again, this is a very rare reaction - and my contention about it is >>> twofold >>> >>> >>> >>> 1) there is no robust reaction in the real world where protons go >>> directly to a deuteron without first forming a neutron, and that first step >>> is energetically impossible, so the rarity of this p-e-p reaction is >>> ingrained and systemic. >>> >>> >>> >>> 2) Therefore … even if there were such a reaction in LENR, at ten or >>> even 100 times greater probability than the known p+p version, consider the >>> obvious problem of exclusivity. >>> >>> >>> >>> Either way it does NOT happen in practice since we know there are no gammas >>> ! >>> >>> >>> >>> Consider exclusivity. For the sake of argument - even if there are found to >>> be two possible proton reactions, and one reaction is “supposed to be >>> different” from the known solar reaction, but the outcome is the same >>> except for the gamma - the problem always comes back to one of perfect >>> exclusivity. Exclusivity is the logical fallacy that cannot be overcome. >>> >>> >>> >>> When a gamma reaction is known to happen with the same reactant, how can >>> that reaction be excluded from happening, in a new scenario when both >>> reactions are given enough energy to overcome the fusion threshold? >>> Especially if one (the desired reaction) is much rarer than the other. >>> >>> >>> >>> Simplest answer: the known reaction cannot be excluded from happening, when >>> the energy threshold is met - and there will be gammas even if the >>> hypothetical p-e-p reaction has none by itself. >>> >>> >>> >>> ERGO. We really have no realistic option in framing a proper LENR theory - >>> other than to find a gainful reaction which NEVER produces gammas nor >>> indicia which are not in evidence (bremsstrahlung ). UV or soft x-rays are >>> ok but no gammas >>> >>> >>> >>> Jones >>> >>> >>> >>> BTW - take an electron and proton at rest, that system has a mass of 0.511 >>> + 938.272 = 938.8 MeV/c^2. That is the total mass available to that system. >>> It cannot increase above that level unless substantial energy comes from >>> outside the system. A neutron has a mass of 939.6 MeV/c^2. >>> >>> >>> >>> So, to make a neutron from an electron and a proton, the extra 782 keV has >>> to come from outside the electron-proton system. It cannot come from the >>> acceleration of the particles toward each other by their own attraction. >>> One simply MUST make the neutron first – even if the deuteron, the end >>> product of p+n does have a usable mass deficit. >>> >>> >>> >>> People who should know better are in denial about the rarity of p-e-p ! >>> >>> >>> >>> Let’s get over it and move on. P-e-p is dead-in-the-water for adequately >>> explaining the Rossi effect. >>> >
