From: H Veeder
BTW - take an electron and proton at rest,
that system has a mass of 0.511 + 938.272 = 938.8 MeV/c^2. That is the total
mass available to that system. It cannot increase above that level unless
substantial energy comes from outside the system. A neutron has a mass of
939.6 MeV/c^2.
So, to make a neutron from an electron and a
proton, the extra 782 keV has to come from outside the electron-proton
system. It cannot come from the acceleration of the particles toward each
other by their own attraction. One simply MUST make the neutron first - even
if the deuteron, the end product of p+n does have a usable mass deficit.
Fair enough, but may be Ed's starting point is necessary for
your reversible proton fusion. Think of it as electron mediated reversible
proton fusion.Harry, Astute observation. It is all a matter of probability. But note in the prior post, the premise was stated, and the literature fully agrees with this - that when the two protons are brought together with enough energy to surmount the fusion threshold the p-p reaction is 400 times more likely to happen than is p-e-p. We know this from solar observation. In a metal matrix the p-e-p reaction could be more favorable than p-p, but it is still low probability when the fusion threshold is absent. It is absent so neither will be seen very often. Please have a look at the p-e-p section on the Wiki site. Many scoff at Wiki, on technical issues - but that is usually because the concise points presented do not support their stance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton%E2%80%93proton_chain_reaction Next, we must ask, how much more probable is RPF than is p-p or p-e-p ? That number is astronomical (pun intended). It's estimated that for every real proton fusion reaction on the sun (or any star) 10^20 RPF reactions happen. This can be calculated by how fast the star burns through its fuel - and it would be in a few years instead of a billions of years without this very high rate of reversibility. Thus, due to the sequential intensity of RPF, small packets of energy can be shed without recourse to any other theory. In effect, I agree that that RPF will also be electron mediated, but unlike Ed, I am saying that both reaction can happen in the same experiment, but that p-e-p will be far less likely to happen. Since the fusion threshold is not met in LENR then the ratio for RPF could be much more favorable than even 10^20. To be a little more precise, Ed's theory also implies that the active atoms first achieve ground state collapse, to avoid the need of most of that external input of 782 keV, somewhat like the Mills model. In fact the implication is that the energy is first shed and then recovered IIRC. I think this could be accurate, but the reaction is still rare compared to the reversible version. In fact, Ed's theory will be viewed by some pundits as an improved version of Mills, since the ultimate energy source, which is the improvement - is the nucleus and not the electron orbital. All of Mills skeptics agree that this is CQM's major flaw - suggesting a non-nuclear nexus for gain. In short, my belief is that the p-e-p reaction will happen in LENR, but it will be comparatively rare. Thus it is not needed to explain the gammaless thermal gain seen in the Rossi effect. It is astronomically more probable, based on the evidence available from the solar model - to see many trillions of RPF reactions per second. The big advantage in having lots of reversible reactions is that large net gain can a happen via such minutiae as spin coupling of the proton to the nickel nucleus via QCD. IMHO - spin coupling is the next frontier of LENR. Think "magnon."
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