Bob,
I understand your point that there may not be a substantial rise in temperature
within the active core provided the energy is released in a form other than
direct thermal energy. This concept appears quite sound and may in fact be
operating within the HotCat.
The best case scenario would be for incoming heat energy from the resistor
wires diffusing into the fuel and then being converted into other forms of
energy. If that were possible, the fuel might actually remain at a temperature
that is slightly lower than the surrounding temperature. I have a suspicion
that the laws of thermodynamics would not permit this type of trade off to
exist, but I am open to be proven in error.
The report mentioned that it was possible to operate the device at a power
level in excess of the power chosen for the testing. If this is true, then
even higher temperatures than those recorded may be possible. What is the
limit to operating temperature and what establishes that value? If melting of
the fuel does not quench the energy production process then the idea of fixed
NAE is down the drain.
There are many conflicting observations around. We need plenty of additional
data before a clear understanding of exactly how this device operates can be
established.
I wish the testers had taken time to step up the input power in small steps
while observing the output temperature. My simulation model could then be
adjusted to match those observations and thereby offer much further proof of
additional core power generation. The rapid power output/ power input ration
seen for the one step taken is extremely strong evidence toward proof that the
device works as advertised.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Cook <frobertc...@hotmail.com>
To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Fri, Oct 17, 2014 10:29 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
Dave--
My experience in the design of fission reactors includes the fact that some
energy produced by the fissioning of U is lost to the outside of the fuel
element and does not contribute to the internal temperature. This is true for
fast neutron energies, and much of the gamma energy produced. Most however
goes into thermal energy of the fuel inside the cladding because its source is
the the thermal excitation of the fuel lattice by distribution of kinetic
energy of fission fragments, energetic electrons and other particles, not
including photons and neutrons.
Until we understand the actual energy production of the LENR reactor, it is
only speculation as to what the internal temperature could be.
However, my speculation is that all heat in the Rossi LENR is produced without
energetic neutrons or photons, but with lattice thermal (vibrational coupling
to the spin energy changes) of the coherent nano particles of the reactor.
This thermal heat is effectively transferred to the alumina reactor vessel with
little differential temperatures within the reactor cavity itself by convection
of the nano particles themselves and the Li metal vapor forming part of the mix
of the hot gas interior.
I consider the resonant conditions involving spin coupling in a magnetic field
are involved and that Rossi has designed the reactor to maintain a constant
temperature, critical to allowing the reaction (involving the Li vapor) to take
place within or on the surface of the Ni nano particles. The small nano
particles do not generate a significant internal temperature above the
effective reactor gas temperature. Hence they do not melt and change their
structure to become fused together. As Bob Higgins has suggested there may be
a higher temperature substrate or alloy designed by Rossi to allow the
temperature of the gas to go higher than would be possible with pure Ni nano
particles. If he has not done that change, it could be the basis for reaching
higher reaction temperatures and more efficient operation in any connected
electrical production system.
IMHO NASA should take notice to this discussion to improve their thermoelectric
space probe energy sources.
Bob Cook
----- Original Message -----
From: David Roberson
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2014 10:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
Bob,
If we assume that a high temperature structure is surrounding and immediately
adjacent to the fuel chamber the materials within that chamber should be as a
minimum the structure temperature unless heat is flowing into the fuel
chamber. I suppose that the fuel could be cooler provided you believe some
form of heat pump is absorbing the heat flowing into the fuel and sending it
out in the form of high energy radiation.
I do not expect for that to happen so my visualization is that the core is
hotter than anywhere else within the device with the possible exception of
the resistive wires directly. The core material can be cooler than the
heating wires provided a path for heat to bypass the literal wires exists.
That path should be available in most cases.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Cook <frobertc...@hotmail.com>
To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Thu, Oct 16, 2014 10:58 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
Dave--
I thought it was reported that Rossi cut the end of the reactor with a
diamond saw. There would have been no plugged charging hole to contend with.
I do not think the temperature in the reactor was high enough to melt the Ni
or Ni alloy nano particles. As I suggested the energy of reaction was
released as radiant energy and did not raise the temperature of the reactants
significantly. The Li metal vapor would have acted to remove heat to the
wall of the reactor, if the nano particles of Ni (alloy) got to hot. It is
my assumption that the temperature of the vapor (maybe plasma) was fairly
uniform within the reactor vessel (alumina containment).
It may be that the isotopes of Ni below 62 were indeed depleted and not seen
in the ash.
Bob Cook
----- Original Message -----
From: David Roberson
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2014 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
Bob, how would we explain the appearance of the ash material that was
extracted from the tube? According to the testers the device can operate
at higher powers than they experienced which would certainly lead to
complete melting of the nickel. What are the chances that some of the
other materials in the fuel mix might result in 'slag' that prevents the
Nickel crystals from growing very large.
It would seem likely for the condensing nickel to form a blockage of the
small interior channel into which the fuel was inserted. If that happened,
the amount of material that could be analyzed would be quite limited.
That might explain the large amount of Ni62 if the sample were constricted
to the material near the end cap and not an average.
I asked about the amount of material that was collected as ash from which
the samples were drawn and do not recall getting an answer.
One last comment. If the true temperature of the fuel reached the level
that the IR measurements suggested then I would be very surprised to find
that a gram was extracted after the test was completed. Local melting and
crystallization would very likely plug up the charging hole in several
locations.
Just my thoughts.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Higgins <rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com>
To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Thu, Oct 16, 2014 6:29 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
One thing we can be pretty sure of is that any Ni in this reactor at
1300-1400C will have no nano-features. The nano-scale portions melt at
about half the temperature of the bulk material. So what would happen is
that if there was Ni with nano-scale features, these features would melt
before the bulk and cease to be nano. Long before you get to 1000C, Ni
particles (if that is what he used) would sinter themselves together and to
the wall of the reactor.
I do suspect that nano-features are still required for the reaction. In
order for them to exist at these temperatures, Rossi must have substituted
a new metal, perhaps zirconium. Previously he said he had experimented
with other materials, but they didn't work as well as Ni. Well, in his
quest to get the temperature hotter, he may have switched to one of these
alternate formulations. This switch caused the hotCat to work at a higher
temperature, but probably with a lower COP than his original recipe, colder
eCats. Zirconium is a refractory metal which melts (bulk) at 1855C. This
is still borderline for maintaining any nano-scale features at the Lugano
hotCat temperatures. Rossi may have put the catalyzed zirconium particles
in a ceramic washcoat inside the inner ceramic tube as is done for
catalytic converters. The washcoat may prevent proton conduction just by
itself, and will hold the zirconium particles close to the wall for best
lowest thermal resistance. When you open the reactor to take out the "ash"
there won't be any active material that comes out.
The heater wire is probably Kanthal Super or the like which is good to over
1500C when encapsulated in a ceramic coating to prevent air from reaching
the wire.
On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Bob Cook <frobertc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Axil, David etal--
I would have guessed that a vapor of Li metal (I am not sure a plasma
would occur) may be a fairly good heat transfer agent, much like He
works as a cooling fluid. I would be surprised if there were a 200
degree delta T between the edge of the reactor and its center.
Delta T across the alumina vessel may be that 200 degrees, if the energy
transfer is by photons generated by the reaction directly, rather than by
lattice stimulation of the reacting material with its IR radiation, most
of the heat may deposited in the reactor vessel (alumina) or escape
through the vessel to the outside surroundings. Maybe Dave's calculation
would be able to say what the delta T across the alumina would be with a
given heat flux assuming published heat transfer coeff's for alumina.
Helium gas is a good heat transfer agent and Li, being of low mass,
would be almost as good.
My thought about the reactor design is as follows:
1. The reactive material, Ni or some alloy of Ni is free in the vessel
along with Li metal.
2. The external energy supply is an inductance heater as well as
supplying an oscillating magnetic field--which is controlled to effect
resonant conditions.
3. The reactants, Li and Ni nano particles, reach a temperature where the
LENR happens when the magnetic field is appropriate and resonances match.
4. The reaction causes the release of photons of determined energy (a
function of the magnetic field) with a change in the nuclear structure of
the Li and the Ni isotopes reacting. These photons are relatively low
energy and not gammas seen in classical nuclear transitions associated
with high kinetic energy reactions or transitions of excited radioactive
isotopes.
5. The temperature, or the combination of temperature and magnetic field
strength, in the Ni nano particles control the rate of the reaction via a
negative temperature coeff. much like a water cooled, U fueled, fission
reactor.
6. As the free reactants are used up or become "glued" to the reactor
vessel so that free mixing of the Ni and the Li is no longer possible,
the LENR stops.
7. The electrical leads are not inconel, but are tungsten or other high
temperature electrical conductor. I would not expect that corrosion is
an issue with the alumina or the reactants. The wire conductors would
have to hold up in a Li, nano Ni hot gas environment, however. Free O
would be a problem for corrosion and may change the Ni so as to become
non-reactive.
