Hi Professor and all the developers with this group, So feel great getting response from the you who developed Web2py.
I read you article. And it good to know your thoughts. As you mentioned of the analogy of Fiat and Ferrari cars. I was thinking of what exactly are we developers moving ahead and business consultants vision of future. We developers do have to align with the market trending or come-up with something which Business Capitalist rely on our apps being developed. I have worked on SAP ABAP, know what it is. And to be frank SAP is now moving towards mobility apps in a very high speed. As you mentioned about SAP, Java, MS, or Python , Ruby, or so on.. Just check these articles below. SAP's recent news on Mobility Apps, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgWLHWyyP1M http://www.sap.com/solutions/technology/enterprise-mobility/mobile-solutions-overview.epx http://www.arcweb.com/strategy-reports/2012-05-31/winners-of-the-sap-innovation-challenge-for-manufacturing-mobile-apps-2012-1.aspx Similar to SAP, Oracle now turns towards Oracle's JD Edwards EnterpriseOne for Mobile apps on Apple iPad. JAVA MEAP project. And even MS for Dynamics, or its Phone app Now what we claim to be Ferrari cars are also following the steps of Fiat. And it seams funny. Business Consultants, Strategy Consultants look out for Social Media these days and the cost generated by the technology which was nowhere near to comparison. But they need the result, no matter it relates with humanity or just money they follow those technology and come up their own solutions. Either it is product development or an App. Let me compare SAP ABAP and Python or Ruby since Python and Ruby is more or less same. SAP ABAP got a very good IDE kind of transaction environment which pulls up the functional modules and class which we define, automatically, and even libraries dynamically and transact to new layer of architecture. And the Data ("manipulation or extraction") works quite very quick and automatically link with huge set of data. Python or Ruby on the other end we need to develop, declare each Class, module and everything and IDE which if we use sometimes are developed by Java which got its own set libraries to do its operations which we try to do in Python. And these WebServer to be separate. To be true each developers have their own set of limitations and we add up so many tools, language dependencies to end up same Application or Products which one or other technology develops. As I mentioned, SAP too are developing same Apps and made as a single entity as Product and marketed it. And our Python or Ruby or Haskell or any language dependent Web-frameworks develops such Apps and compete with these Enterprise products. And if we think of MS, they are no different. They got this F# which more or less same liking of Haskell, or any of their research on Python or Ruby or Web-Frameworks ASP.net MVC. hahhaa In SAP we call it Customizing, improving the existing product to newer version to make it better. Similar to that we have many in Python, Ruby or MS or Java as Version Control. And we think about future of Web, yes their is talk on Semantic Web technology, may be Java, Python or others, even SAP as such do have vision for it. And as you mentioned, in India, Business for Software Developers now shifting to Contract Software Engineers, who will work as part time. Know the tools worked for few days or 1 - 2 months and than shift to another corporate. And if it is Fiat mechanics as I am probably look to add Ferrari's in my Garage to get it working as well. And yes, in India I have come across, many students, friends who are exceptionally brilliant software developers not being hired because of the demand for more low skilled labors(write long simple by-the-book programs) than true Problem solving engineers. :) It seamed a caged breeder environment. And lack of those mechanics who to be frank truly able to do something great for humanity. I wish Web2Py have its own Group website so that we don't rely on Gmail or Google. And even wish Web2py develop in so great ways that it even gives competing to both Application development as well as for the giants such as SAP, Java, MS for their Enterprise Mobility. I am sure learing Web2Py. Hope I do something good for myself and feel proud feeling that I did something creative. Thanks Rohit On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 8:16 AM, Massimo Di Pierro < massimo.dipie...@gmail.com> wrote: > oops. cut and paste problem. Sorry. That line was not supposed to be there. > > > On Thursday, 31 May 2012 20:29:44 UTC-5, Alec Taylor wrote: >> >> Very good points Professor Di Pierro, >> >> Found your reasoning very interesting. >> >> Quick question, your final line in the aforementioned email has "I >> talk to many employers and entrepreneurs. There is a perception that >> Java programmers are the " but the paragraph is unfinished. What were >> you planning to write? >> >> On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 5:23 AM, Massimo Di Pierro >> <massimo.dipie...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > I should add something to the previous post. >> > >> > There are Fiat cars and there are Ferraris. Most people in Italy drive >> a >> > Fiat. That does not make it a better car. Most mechanics know how to >> fix a >> > Fiat. That's because there are many of them and they break more. >> > >> > If an investor wants to open a repair shop, he will look for Fiat >> mechanics. >> > I am pretty sure Ferrari mechanics are rare. >> > >> > Now ask yourself. If you are a mechanic, which car would you rather >> work on? >> > >> > Finally and more importantly. Software development as well >> > as manufacturing needs highly skilled labors (who can write complex >> original >> > programs) and low skilled labors (who can write long simple by-the-book >> > programs). India is perceived as the place to outsource the latter but >> not >> > the former. I think this perception is wrong but that may >> be exactly the >> > problem you are facing. >> > >> > Massimo >> > >> > I talk to many employers and entrepreneurs. There is a perception that >> Java >> > programmers are the >> > >> > On Thursday, 31 May 2012 14:07:58 UTC-5, Massimo Di Pierro wrote: >> >> >> >> You ask a very good question. I do not know the answer so I dodge it. >> >> >> >> In my view we have seen a large proliferation of tools recently >> >> (databases, languages, etc.). As a developer there are a number of >> things >> >> you should be concerned about: >> >> >> >> - are you familiar with the latest tools? >> >> - are you capable of making an informed decision about tools that you >> use >> >> to carry on your job? >> >> - what can you learn about other tools even if you choose not to use >> them? >> >> - which tools make you most productive? >> >> >> >> There is a big distinction between the tools that make you marketable >> to >> >> large companies (they use MS, Java, Oracle, SAP products) and tools >> that >> >> make you productive and valuable to a small startup (RoR, Django, >> web2py, >> >> etc.). >> >> This is because the most popular tool does not give you an edge. I >> know >> >> many developers that use a set of tools for their daily job (as >> instructed >> >> by the companies they work for) and other tools for their personal >> stuff. >> >> >> >> In US, a lots of company use Java because they are slow to change and >> >> because they know they can find developers fluent in the language. >> Most >> >> small companies look for Python/Ruby developers (because they did not >> learn >> >> that in school but most likely on their own, thus proving ability to >> work >> >> independently). >> >> >> >> If your goal is to get a job in a major corporation web2py is not for >> you >> >> (it may be for them but they do not know, so it is not for you). >> Instead you >> >> should get a MS or Java certification. >> >> >> >> If you goal is to be productive, and you have dreams about software >> you >> >> want to build for yourself or for the betterment of humanity, you >> should >> >> stay away from MS and Java, and you should learn web2py, Django, Ruby, >> >> Haskell, Node.js, etc. >> >> >> >> One thing I see in all of my classes. The best students (top 1%) like >> to >> >> use languages that we do not teach. Professors know it. Employers know >> it. >> >> >> >> Massimo >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thursday, 31 May 2012 13:36:44 UTC-5, Anything you call good wrote: >> >>> >> >>> I am from India, >> >>> >> >>> I have been part of functional work: business role from quite a long >> >>> time. Basically I am an Engineer by qualification. But I wanted to >> learn one >> >>> or the other webframework. I did few Internet search and found few. >> Many are >> >>> well establish and few are upcoming and some are really doing great >> >>> business. Such as Ruby on Rails, Django and even Web2py. >> >>> >> >>> My question is, in India basically most of the companies depends on >> >>> outsourced projects and companies hire only based on the trend. Even >> though >> >>> people these days here are feebly inclining to learn Django and RoR , >> its >> >>> only because of the present market conditions which looks bright for >> RoR and >> >>> Django. And only since there is huge demand for quick web app >> required which >> >>> can be performed. And ironically, when it comes to hire people, it >> jumps up >> >>> the requirement for people with more than 2 or 3 years of experience >> of >> >>> either framework or Python or Ruby programming language. Which here >> most >> >>> often looks stupid HR Practices. Ironically its true and feels >> annoying. But >> >>> its happening in India from many years. I am hereby giving you two >> links >> >>> which mostly Indian HR Community prefers to hire people. >> >>> www.monsterindia.com and www.naukri.com. Kindly search the key terms >> for >> >>> "Python", "Ruby", RoR", or "Django" or "Haskell" or "Web2py". You >> will know >> >>> the showing results of it. I am sure you will find nill for "Web2py", >> few >> >>> for Django and little bit more for RoR.And hardly anyone even know >> about >> >>> Haskell, even if they know just like "Oh yes I heard of it". And even >> for >> >>> these two well known frameworks desired requirement for Job looks >> highly >> >>> knowledgeable for Python, Ruby and almost like Programming Guru. The >> >>> requirement or the description of these looks as if, if person really >> had >> >>> such qualities, I feel he/she couldn't have started his own venture >> isn't.. >> >>> Now my main question is, what are the opportunities for Web2py among >> these >> >>> well known frameworks and linking of RoR or Django in Asia/ India or >> near >> >>> future. Since most of the web framework follows the similarities of >> other or >> >>> reducing the coding abilities and hence a huge IDE are formed which >> >>> basically developed by Java or other. I want to know the future >> aspects of >> >>> Web2py. Will it be useful to someone to do business, will be >> different in >> >>> Future or turn to be like dreamweaver or RoR or Django sort of >> another >> >>> webframework. I want to learn this. And now in terms of business, >> what are >> >>> the opportunities which Web2py surrounds. >> >>> >> >>> Regards, >> >>> Rohit >> >
