The interesting thing about OG's graphing is that someone actually
spent some time working on it for the most recent release of OG, to
the point that it actually maps attributes now (where previously it
only did the entity names). It would be nice if OG were to pop up a
window asking how to build and layout the graph that it builds,
giving more control over the formatting, etc. Personally, I like to
print out my models on 3' x 6' charts, but I don't do it very often,
because i don't care to sort through the generated graph and make it
fit every single time. So OG is definitely a nice solution, and I'm
glad to see that it's doing attributes now, but it has a few
shortcomings (although some of these are probably general OG usage
issues that I shouldn't be bringing up). Also, I assume that OG
itself also uses the Cocoa-Java bridge, unless it's just reading the
raw .plist files (anyone know?), so it may too end up a victim of the
deprecation.
I have mixed feelings about WOBuilder. It definitely needs serious
help. Very serious help. But I personally must be missing why it's
really THAT hard to strip some of the Cocoa-Java portions of these
apps out of them and make them pure Objective-C. In EOModeler's case,
I understand that it relies very heavily on the EOControl layer
straight out of EOF, and in that case, Mike has obviously built what
is basically a fully functional and, IMO, superior replacement to it.
WOBuilder is a different beast. I fail to see why it relies heavily
on Cocoa-Java APIs, and what prevents it from being updated to be
pure Objective-C, getting its attribute and entity information, say,
from parsing the .java source files and plist files in the EOModel
based on a file change notification, for example.
Obviously I say all that without the benefit of any knowledge of the
structure of the app, but it is a tool that I hate to see go away.
For me, visual editing is in fact a big boost to my productivity. I
will concede that it has certainly resulted in my developing better
code, but hand coding still slows me down a great deal. I don't have
a "design" team using GoLive and a "development" team using <insert
IDE here> that work independently of one another. Apple does, and I
think that its own internal development processes involving
WebObjects have been adversely affecting development of WOBuilder for
a while. What would be kind of nice is if they released the source
code for WOBuilder to PW, let's say, so that the community could try
tackling this issue. I can dream, right?
Cheers,
Clark
On 21 Jan 07, at 4:52 PM, Galen Rhodes wrote:
Yea, I tried that trick. It's not the same. The results were less
(much less) then I'd hoped for. Granted it worked, but in a very
utilitarian sense. And, quite frankly, the results were very ugly.
For example, it doesn't allow me to selectively view only certain
objects. It just sorta "splats" everything up there whether I want
to see them or not.
You know, working on Mac has always been about ease of use and
WYSIWYG editing (at least to some degree). I'm really disheartened
that now WebObjects developers are being sent "backwards" in this
regard.
--
Galen Rhodes
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he
does not want merely because you think it would be good for him."
-- Robert Heinlein --
On Jan 21, 2007, at 2:30 PM, Mr. Pierre Frisch wrote:
As far as diagram view for models you can use OmniGraffle. Just
drop you model on top of the application and enjoy.
Pierre
--
Pierre Frisch
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 21-Jan-07, at 10:33 AM, Galen Rhodes wrote:
From the looks of it we're supposed to use Eclipse+WOLips.
I've played with it a little. Eclipse is VERY nice indeed but as
far as WOLips goes I am still largely unimpressed. It definitely
takes longer using the WOLips tools because they lack any form of
WYSIWYG editing. Even the WOLips EOModel editor appears to lack
a "Diagram View" which I find indispensable.
Perhaps these things will come to WOLips but my last 15 years of
experience with OpenSource does not leave me with much hope in
this. OpenSource projects tend to reach a "good enough" point
and then they stop progressing.
--
Galen Rhodes
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he
does not want merely because you think it would be good for him."
-- Robert Heinlein --
On Jan 21, 2007, at 1:21 PM, Andrew Satori wrote:
Alright, so with the official 'Java-Bridge is dead' status for
the future, what does this mean for WOBuilder and the graphical
creation of WOComponents?
As far as I can tell, that leaves editing the .wo bundles by
hand. While not impossible, it is certainly a step backwards,
so my question is, what is the rest of the community planning on
using in place of WOBuilder?
Andy
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