there was discussion about the subject of googling wo probably 12
months ago and one conclusion drawn then was that hot IT topics get
publicity via search engines because there is so much blogged about
them. look at RoR - one community web site + lots of blogging = hot
property.
maybe we should all be saying "check out WOnder, it's really cool"
instead ?
Simon
On 8 Apr 2008, at 22:29, Hugi Þórðarson wrote:
Of course we, the nerds, know that WO is doing better than ever.
Hell, I've never been happier or more productive with WO and I've
been a full time WO programmer since 1998. The stuff that's coming
from Mike in WOLips (and Wonder) is nothing short of amazing.
And I'm lucky - I control what software I use, and I choose WO. I
can, because I don't have to deal with managers that "know better".
But I completely understand why managers are reluctant to choose WO.
Try Googling "WebObjects". The first site that comes up is Apple's
site (surprise!) - and the first and only article there celebrated
it's fourth birthday last month.
I mean, if someone comes to you and says "check out product X, it's
really cool!" - you go to the website of the company that makes X,
and see that nothing's happened since 2004.... Catch my drift?
I'm not trying to be negative. I don't have to. Thanks to Mike and
Wonder, life is good with WO, and Pierre and his team are doing an
excellent job in many regards. But perhaps it's time for Apple to
spend like 1 man month on the WO web site (like, making it not look
dead) or just plain redirect to the community efforts, where actual
stuff is happening.
- hugi
On 8.4.2008, at 20:40, Lachlan Deck wrote:
Hi there,
On 09/04/2008, at 4:50 AM, Robert B. Hanviriyapunt wrote:
For some time now, my company has been set on leaving WebObjects.
We have been running WebObjects 5.2 on Windows servers.
For some time WO5.3.3 has been out... and free. And WO5.4.1 is also
out.
We haven't moved 100% yet, but my next project will be using
JavaServer Faces. And another fairly new project will be using
OpenLaszlo with our existing J2E back-end.
Company's reasons for leaving:
1. WebObjects is proprietary
So is Windows. Why aren't they running BSD or Linux? ;-)
2. New versions of WebObjects is not supported on Windows
What do they understand by support? The frameworks can be used on
*any* platform.
3. Perceived lack of knowledgeable WebObjects programmers (I'm in
the Chicago suburbs -- Northbrook, IL, to be precise)
Perhaps they've not been paying attention to the mailings lists.
(specifically: webobjects-dev, wonder-disc, woproject-dev).
We do NOT use:
1. Xcode/WebObjects tools [Xcode or WOBuilder or EOModeler]
(except for me on a MacBook Pro -- only because I requested it)
Hardly anyone uses Xcode, WOBuilder, EOModeler anymore --
especially if you're on Leopard. They use Eclipse/WOLips which is
much better and improving in leaps and bounds all the time.
http://wiki.objectstyle.org/confluence/display/WOL/Home
- perhaps you/they've not had a look through the wiki... tutorials
etc
2. EOF
If you're not using EOF - what part of WebObjects were you using?
3. WONDER
That's a huge loss - especially given that they're big on non-
proprietary frameworks.
4. Servlet container (which I do not prefer anyway)
I personally enjoy WebObjects development and wish that WebObjects
would be more palatable to companies such as mine.
I do understand where companies (or more specifically, management)
are coming from when they get nervous about a certain technology
such as WebObjects. For years Apple was quite silent about
WebObjects. e.g., Bug reports went unnoticed, updates didn't seem
to be a priority. But that has turned around quite dramatically in
the last couple of years... ironically beginning with the
announcement of the tools deprecation.
The community is thriving and Apple (i.e., the employees) are also
contributing in significant ways and being proactive about bug
reports and taking part in the mailing lists.
Please excuse the ranting, but I want someone at Apple to know
that as great as WebObjects technology is [I personally think it
is the BEST I've seen anywhere], it is losing ground because if
it's lack in thet top 3 items mentioned. I wish so bad that Apple
would do something about it.
Personally I think Apple has done something about it - and for the
better. But as I've explained, you're only left with one argument:
proprietary. You can't argue with management, unfortunately, when
their on the buzz word bandwagon of open-source despite the
maturity of a particular framework in comparison to other stuff...
Certainly if it's completely closed and there's no possibility of
customising stuff... but we've already mentioned WOnder (or Houdah,
or similar frameworks)
I'm guessing people's response will be: Don't hold your breath.
Perhaps you held it too long and didn't realise what's happened
these last few years ;-)
with regards,
--
Lachlan Deck
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