Le 2010-11-17 à 00:34, Chuck Hill a écrit : > > On Nov 16, 2010, at 8:43 PM, Michael Gargano wrote: > >> Definitely not wasted time. I pushed really hard and got my company to give >> us the go ahead on WO this year. It was a hard enough sell to begin with, >> but if there was no one updating anything, it would be even worse. The more >> active the community is, the more alive WO stays. By letting things go you >> signal defeat. I look forward to helping more as soon as I know what I'm >> talking about. :) > > Not knowing what you are talking about can be helpful too. Let's say you go > to the Wiki to see how to run your app through Apache. You find 3 or 4 pages > of contradictory, confusing, and overlapping information. Having that > documented somewhere as a To Fix is more valuable than 10 people finding the > same situation and doing nothing. Once you know something well enough, it is > easier to ignore or overlook problems like this. > > > Maybe we need a Jira space setup for the Wiki?
Since, contrary to the Wonder or WOLips source, you can fix stuff in the wiki right away, I think we should work with tags instead. Found a outdated page? Add a "look_at_this" tag or something like this. > > Chuck > > >> On Nov 16, 2010, at 9:33 PM, Pascal Robert wrote: >> >>> >>> Le 2010-11-16 à 20:55, Chuck Hill a écrit : >>> >>>> On Nov 16, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Ian Joyner wrote: >>>>> On 17 Nov 2010, at 11:43, Chuck Hill wrote: >>>>>> On Nov 15, 2010, at 8:43 PM, Ian Joyner wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> One student in his experience report mentioned that professional >>>>>>> programmers should spend extra time on making their stuff usable and >>>>>>> easily installable if they are going to expect people to use their >>>>>>> systems. Salient advice all around and I think he scored 100%. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think an important distinction here is between "expect people to use >>>>>> their systems" and "allow people to use their systems". Wonder largely >>>>>> falls in the second category. "I made this because I found it >>>>>> interesting and you can use it if you want." Neither WO nor Wonder are >>>>>> now marketed products and there is little incentive to make them appear >>>>>> like they are. >>>>> >>>>> Well I meant expect more in the sense of (cmd-ctrl-d) "regarding >>>>> something as likely to happen" and from the Thesaurus in the anticipate >>>>> sense, not the require or insist on sense. >>>> >>>> I understood what you meant. But it seems to me that most of what is in >>>> Wonder was really added from a perspective of "you can use this if you >>>> want, if you don't then I don't care". Which explains the lack of >>>> documentation and tutorials. People are willing to share, but they don't >>>> have the time and resources to go out of their way to make it easy for >>>> you. "If you want to know, read the code." A major reason for this is >>>> that most contributions come from a single person's efforts (meaning >>>> someone working alone). Everyone like to complain about documentation, >>>> but no one likes to write it. >>>> >>>> >>>>> People use Rails, Django, and Pylons because they think they're cool. >>>>> Don't know how to get that cool factor into WO. But removing each hurdle >>>>> would help. Perhaps development on different platforms would help - if we >>>>> wanted to teach WO, we couldn't because that would require students to go >>>>> out and buy Macs (something we subtly encourage but don't 'expect'). >>>> >>>> >>>> I suspect that most people using WO don't care about the cool factor so >>>> they don't spend a lot of time trying to push it. Most of us have been >>>> around long enough to know to disbelieve stories of Technology X being a >>>> Silver Bullet. It seems to me that the driving forces behind technologies >>>> like Rails, Django, and Pylons tend to be younger or more idealistic (or >>>> is that fanatical?). I just don't have the energy for that. I don't know >>>> what the answer is. Maybe we are all too busy and too tired to go out and >>>> evangelize beyond adding to Wonder and presenting at WOWODC. >>> >>> And maybe because it's only a very small group of people who try to do some >>> marketing. Counting the time I took to cleanup the wiki, WOWODC >>> organization, WOWODC presentations, wocommunity.org, mailing lists, etc., I >>> have spent more than 250 hours this year on community stuff. And I'm >>> starting to think that those 250 hours were wasted... >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Pascal Robert >>> prob...@macti.ca >>> >>> AIM/iChat : MacTICanada >>> LinkedIn : http://www.linkedin.com/in/macti >>> Twitter : pascal_robert >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) >>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mgargano%40me.com >>> >>> This email sent to mgarg...@me.com >> > > -- > Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development > > Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall > knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems. > http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
