+1 I am now and in the future will use WO fro all my Projects. I am tired to learn new stuff.
I can make and fix with WO & Wonder everything I need, and that's OK. Ken On 2012/03/28, at 17:34, Chuck Hill wrote: > The sun set on WO a long time ago (well, assuming you think that it ever > really shined on WO). For new projects, WebObjects and Wonder is still my > choice until I find something _better_ not just newer. I am not moving to > something newer and worse because WO is old (though I might move to something > newer and worse if using WO is an impediment to getting new work). When I > find something better, I am gone. I've been looking since 1999 or so... I > look on WebObjects more as a completed library, not an EOL product with no > future. Wonder is the source of new features. Granted, that means no bug > fixes that can't be done in Wonder, but what software do you use that does > NOT have bugs? > > > Chuck > > On 2012-03-28, at 8:02 AM, John Huss wrote: > >> Technologies come and go; there is a lifecycle for everything. That is a >> fundamental attribute of software development. The fact that WebObjects has >> endured for so long as a relevant and useful piece of technology is amazing. >> But like all technologies, it can't last forever. The sun is setting (or >> has set) on WO. It's time to move on; that's what programmers do - our >> toolset evolves over time - usually it changes dramatically every 5-10 >> years. This is just another evolution whose time has come. >> >> It is sort of sweet and heart-warming to see the outpouring of affection for >> WO, but the reality is that it's time to move on. The best thing you can do >> for WO now is to gain experience with other technologies and then help >> people migrate to them. Cayenne should be at the top of this list. On the >> HTML side, I'd love have someone find out how hard it is to migrate WO >> components to Tapestry. >> >> The reality is that WO is LEGACY technology. It should be treated as such. >> That means you continue to maintain your apps that use WO, you find a new >> technology, and you write your new apps in something else. >> >> John >> >> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 8:18 AM, Pascal Robert <prob...@macti.ca> wrote: >> >> Le 2012-03-28 à 08:44, Q a écrit : >> >>> >>> On 28/03/2012, at 9:38 AM, Pascal Robert wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Le 2012-03-27 à 19:30, Mike Schrag a écrit : >>>> >>>>>>>> "I think we should use the funds to pay people to fix issues that the >>>>>>>> majority of users are having. The issues will be voted by the >>>>>>>> community and the most voted issues will become the highest >>>>>>>> priorities." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That is not how Wonder was created and now how I expect that it will >>>>>>> continue. If you have a problem, learn how to fix it. Then put it in >>>>>>> Wonder. >>>>>> >>>>>> In the past, we had Apple sponsorship and most of the big additions to >>>>>> Wonder between 2007 and 2010 came from Apple… We don't have that >>>>>> sponsorship anymore, and personally I don't think we will survive if we >>>>>> don't pay people for major stuff. I don't think we will survive anyway, >>>>>> but that's another story… >>>>> Apple funded a VERY small percentage of the contributions to Wonder. >>>>> Almost all of the contributions I made came from mDimension donating >>>>> their time, bandwidth, and hardware for the good of the community. >>>>> Frankly, if Apple hadn't funded the things they did, I would have done >>>>> them anyway, because I just enjoyed making things. >>>>> >>>>> This approach of paying for fixes seems like you're just going to end up >>>>> with a collection of bounty hunters instead of a community. On top of >>>>> that, there's no way you're going to be able to afford to pay the market >>>>> cost for this work. mDimension easily donated a couple hundred thousand >>>>> dollars of time if you applied their real hourly rate to the work. So on >>>>> top of encouraging people to only give if they get paid, they're going to >>>>> be paid crap, so why would anyone even bother? >>>>> >>>>> I really don't think things are stagnant because of the lack of money. >>>>> They're stagnant because the remaining people in the community don't care >>>>> enough to contribute. I don't buy any of the "I don't know how to do X" >>>>> or "I don't have time to do X." You have to want it. I didn't know how to >>>>> write nearly any of what was in WOLips before I started working on >>>>> WOLips, and likewise with Wonder. I learned WebObjects working on Wonder. >>>>> I'm would wager that everyone who worked on Wonder was in the same >>>>> category. Contribution is also positive reinforcement. The coolest times >>>>> in Wonder for me were always when one person contributing got someone >>>>> else energized to contribute and amazing things were made. >>>>> >>>>> The real question is: Who is currently NOT contributing because they're >>>>> just waiting for a payday to do so? If you're perfectly happy enjoying >>>>> the fruits of the community while not giving back to the community, look >>>>> in the mirror for the reason it's dying. Either give a shit, or don't be >>>>> sad that it dies. >>>> >>> >>> I agree with mike's statement, and can relate. I have worked on many >>> different parts of WOLips, Wonder and numerous other projects, and more >>> often than not I had no idea where to start, all I knew was what I wanted >>> to achieve. You just have to know what you want to do, and don't give up >>> until you succeed or know that it can't be done. Some of the code I have >>> contributed took me over a year to get right (arguably some of it still >>> isn't), and there are other things I have been working on sporadically >>> (because it's not something I need yet) for close to 4 years now that could >>> be great, or may never be finished, I still don't know which. I won't even >>> mention the number of experiments I have abandoned because they couldn't be >>> made to work the way I had hoped. Nobody could justify paying for that >>> time, particularly to someone who had no idea how to do it in the first >>> place, and with possibly nothing to show for it at the end. >>> >>> For me it has never been about getting payment, recognition, or privilege. >>> The sole reason I have spent thousands of hours of my own time working on >>> code for the sole purpose of giving it away is one of moral duty and >>> respect for the people who did it before me and still do it today. They >>> have spent innumerable hours they could have used to do paid work, donated >>> resources and sacrificed time with their families and friends, so that we >>> could benefit from their generosity. People like David Terán who gave more >>> of his life to this community than you would think possible. I do it, >>> because they did it before me, it's my payment for using their work. >>> >>> My advice for the community is to stop getting hung up thinking up ways to >>> better market and grow the community. Instead simply remember what made it >>> what it is, good people, supporting each other and donating their time and >>> effort to make it better than it was yesterday. Step up, do something, make >>> a difference, do it now, no matter how small, in whatever way you can. >> >> Did the community grow by simply supporting each other (and I won't say that >> people support each other, and I'm not aware of any community where everyone >> give and take)? How a shrinking community is going to get better? Especially >> after that most experts left it or can't contribute? Did we have new leaders >> who risen up in the last two years? Do we have new sponsors like mDimension >> or Apple were? How can we find sponsors when most of the community are small >> (one or two guys) shops? >> >> Anyway, I'm giving up (no, WOWODC 2012 won't be cancelled). >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) >> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/johnthuss%40gmail.com >> >> This email sent to johnth...@gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) >> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill%40global-village.net >> >> This email sent to ch...@global-village.net > > -- > Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development > > Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall > knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems. > http://www.global-village.net/gvc/practical_webobjects > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/ken%40ksroom.com > > This email sent to k...@ksroom.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. 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