On Mon, Feb 24, 2003 at 06:35:21PM -0800, Chuck Esterbrook wrote:
| On Monday 24 February 2003 05:19 am, Clark C. Evans wrote:
| > As far as the "model", I think I like the twisted model of a
| > "request" and "resource" better than Webware's model.
|
| I'm curious about this comment. I tried to keep servlet/request/response
| fairly straightforward and simple. What about WebKit servlets or other
| aspects of Webware in general do think could be simplified?
Hi Chuck. In the webware model you have a "transaction" object which
is intern composed of a request and response pair. I don't think that
this decomposition is necessary, and is rather confusing (it raises the
level of complexity). Also, Webware has a Page abstraction which
is "single threaded", but has multiple copies. I'd rather keep the
model as a two parts (not 4: transaction, response, request, page)
Transaction - created for each http incoming request and
its response (thread safe storage); in Twisted this
is just "request"
Servlet - a singleton created once (but not thread safe,
but items shared across all transactions); in
twisted this is a "resource"
The other aspect I like about Twisted is the "dispatch" mechanism
it uses to find a servlet; it is not only simple but extremely
flexible. I say this beacuse I was able to do path variables
out-of-the-box (2 hours) with this tool; in Webware I've been
maintaining a patch for over a year, and this patch isn't ideal.
Not to slight Webware; my current app in production is running
with it... and running very well. I just think that the Twisted
model is both simpler, easier to understand, and more flexible.
| On Monday 24 February 2003 11:06 am, Aaron Held wrote:
| > Webware is like Python, it only wants to handle your logic, let the
| > details be managed by native apps that do it better and provide a
| > 'pythonic' interface.
I don't understand Aaron's comment... see above. In particular,
I find Webware closer to Sun's Java Servlet model than Twisted.
| On Monday 24 February 2003 05:19 am, Clark C. Evans wrote:
| > That said, I wanted "ftp" support for my next app and I'd rather
| > not have it in a separate process. Also, I want to have a single
| > process rather than using Apache. So, this is what is currently
| > attracting me to Twisted -- I guess it's the clutter that I do
| > find useful. *grin*.
|
| I never want my web and app servers to be merged in my production apps.
| I find it useful to be able to restart the app server or even shut it
| down for a few seconds while I fix something. Because the adapters in
| the web server try to contact the app server several times, the
| visitors to my site get a long delay instead of an error.
Yes; this indeed is a great feature for servlet development. But
with the next version I need to be even more lightweight without
requiring non-Python components for distribution...
| I also leverage Apache for doing various things like rewriting URLs,
| compressing content, etc. I don't see much point in duplicating those
| abilities in Python when they already work elsewhere.
I do. I played with mod_gzip and mod_rewrite; and, IMHO, it's easier
to write Python code to do these things rather than worry about
the distribution and configuration of yet-another-apache module.
| Although I'm by no means opposed to adding more protocols to the app
| server. We're already doing HTTP via Ian's earlier contrib.
Does that work? I tried it once or twice and gave up about a
year ago...
| I don't have any Twisted comments as I haven't used their product.
They took a different approach. Their documentation isn't very good,
especially since they focus on "taps" and other items. But overall
their servlet model seems much cleaner.
Chuck, I really love Webware; you've really made a beautyful product
that works flawlessly ... I'm just looking for a solution that doesn't
involve maintaining a separate FTP, SMTP and HTTP components.
Best,
Clark
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