On 5/23/06, Lari Nieminen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Joseph Simmons wrote:
> Well.... I don't really like the changes proposed so far. The main
> problem is that it takes away completely the idea that you have to
> conserve gold from scenario to scenario. All you have to do, under this
> system, is finish as quickly as possible - there's no reason not to
> recruit and recall as many units as you can to clobber the enemy into
> submission. You shouldn't be able to do this - or, you should at least
> get some bonus for not using all of your gold. My suggestion would be:
>
> * Leave the bonus as is, having it apply before the "tax" is taken, and
> not adding "gold", "silver", or "copper".
> * Make the carryover gold 30% or 40%, not 80%.
> * Make the carryover gold add to the minimum gold, not replace it - so,
> if your carryover gold is 60 (you ended with 200 gold, 30% carryover),
> you start the next scenario with the minimum gold (say, 300) plus 60.
> 360 gold.
>
> This greatly reduces the possibility of gold hoarding, although it
> doesn't fix it altogether. I think you'd have to play around with the
> settings to get something that worked right. But I like this a lot
> better than essentially throwing multi-scenario economics out of the
> game entirely.
>
> Any change will require rebalancing, obviously, but we should go for a
> rebalancing that doesn't change the game drastically.
My reasoning for a change is that having to hoard gold is simply not
fun. Leveling up units to build up a good army is fun, while trying to
hoard unknown amounts of gold is not. The ability to recall already
makes a strong connection between scenario, so removing major gold
carryover doesn't make a campaign a simple set of independent scenarios.
Recallable units, heroes, scenario branching, plot details, it'd still
all be there. I've never felt the gold carryover really creating much
sense of continuity. I don't see anything that would really fix what is
the fundamental problem of the current system - the fact that the player
cannot know how he must play the scenario so he can have a chance of
winning the next one - without dropping most of the gold carryover.
As to the player not having reason to hold back on his recruits /
recalls in order to conserve gold: yes, that's the point! He still won't
be able to hoard an arbitrary number of units since he has about the
amount of gold the scenario designer has decided - which should be the
amount with which the player can recruit / recall enough to be able to
beat the scenario.
If he did well in the previous scenario, then he has some little
advantage, like for example that extra unit or two.
This is a strong change to the campaign gameplay, but it also changes
what I believe to be the most annoying and frustrating part of the
campaign gameplay. It seems to have been stated several times that gold
carryover is a big part of Wesnoth gameplay, but that bears little
relevance if it's a _bad_ part of it, which is what I'm claiming.
David Philippi wrote:
> That your performance
> depends on your results in prior scenarios is a key factor in the gameplay.
> It's not really that different from other games as well. Take a RPG game - if
> you play too fast through the early levels, you character(s) won't be strong
> enough to survive later on.
In an RPG, you can then take your characters back to some safe grounds
and beat up goblins to reach a high enough level to beat the bigger ones
without actually losing anything - in a Wesnoth campaign, you may be
forced to permanently discard the advancements you've gained perhaps
over hours of play (which is always bad in a game) and replay even
several scenarios all over again. It's not really the same thing.
--
Lari Nieminen, a.k.a zookeeper
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Maybe the solution to this is to make campaigns less linear, give them
optional branches that do not need to be completed to beat the
scenario, but which create the option of getting your army more
experience or gold.
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