https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=30208
--- Comment #95 from Ryan Lane <rlan...@gmail.com> 2011-09-17 00:16:50 UTC --- (In reply to comment #94) > (In reply to comment #93) > > (In reply to comment #90) > > > Erik Moeller, and Happy Melon, > > > This is indeed not the place to re-litigate a decision but I strongly > > > insist that there is no case for rediscussion the consensus anyway. > > > 'You' > > > should > > > make a real effort to work together with the Wikipedia community > > > rather > > > than constantly assert and reassert the notion of 'us (the WMF) and > > > 'them' > > > (the volunteers). > > > > I'm an enwiki administrator, functionary and contributor with thirty > > thousand > > edits; and a volunteer MediaWiki developer who doesn't and never has taken > > payment or direction from WMF. Eric is VP of Engineering and WMF Deputy > > Director. You could not have chosen two people *less* comparable to claim > > share an "us and them" mentality. The people who have responded to this bug > > fall right across the spectrum from volunteer developers like myself > > through to > > senior staff members. They do not form an "us" in any meaningful sense of > > the > > word. > > > > On the other hand, there *is* a separation of *cultures* here, and it's > > something that an awful lot of members of the wiki communities do not > > appreciate. The developers and (separately) the sysadmins/WMF form their > > own > > separate communities with their own goals and practices; and those goals and > > practices, while closely matching those of enwiki or whereverwiki, do not > > necessarily precisely align. There is nothing unrealistic, or wrong, with > > enwiki having goals which are very slightly different from those of the WMF > > as > > a whole, or for their requests to not be ones that the Foundation feels > > bests > > fits with their own strategies. > > > > Think of the developers, and separately the sysadmins (although there is > > more > > crossover between those two groups than there usually is between two wiki > > communities), in exactly the same way you would think of the Wikimedia > > Commons > > community. Most WMF wikis have a strong and healthy symbiotic relationship > > with Commons, and the Commons community generally does a fairly good job of > > balancing the needs of the many wikis it supports. But the relationship > > between enwiki and commons is certainly not without its moments of tension, > > and > > sometimes the enwiki community does not feel that it is getting everything > > it > > would like. But there is an instinctive recognition throughout the > > community > > that enwiki has no 'right' to expect any more cooperation than it gets, > > because > > Commons is its own project with its own values, and that they will have to > > convince Commons that whatever it is that they want to do is in the best > > interests of *both* projects, in order to progress. If you treat the > > community > > of developers and sysadmins in the same way, you'll understand the situation > > much better. > > I'm not quite sure the two are congruous, for this reason. If I'm looking for > something over at Commons, the consensus will come from a project of > volunteers > similar to myself- I am here entirely of my freewill and not getting paid > anything (and I'm quite happy to do it), as are those who work there. I've > had > ideas shot down by the en.wiki community of volunteers before, and I don't > greatly mind it because reasonable people can disagree. Conversely, here the > consensus is not being driven by people who see it through the same lens as an > unpaid volunteer- it's staffers, who we've said above do not seem to have the > same vast experience as we do. > > Furthermore, I know when I'm being patronized, as it has happened to me > innumerable times in my 21 years of living (it goes with having PDD-NOS but > still being able to have a coherent conversation); I have been above. I can't > say it's easy for me to hear someone tell me to approach their idea with an > open mind after they have attempted to filibuster my own to death in spite of > all the logical reasons that were given. So yes, there is a certain level of > frustration from us. I've been doing volunteer software development on MediaWiki since 2004 (my first patch was to 1.3.7). I haven't worked for the foundation since about a year and a half ago. I'm rabidly pro-community. I also have views that often greatly differ from the foundation's views as well. I'm not taking the stance I am because I'm with the foundation. I have these views as a volunteer as well (and yes, I still do volunteer work). Btw, before you check, I always edit anon (which funny enough, means I get reverted most of the time). The majority of people from the foundation are/were volunteers. This isn't a us vs them thing, it's an us vs us thing. We should all take a deep breath, and calm down a little. We are at an impasse, and getting livid about it isn't going to help. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. _______________________________________________ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
