What is irritating about the ACTRIAL scenario, was that it was a well defined (6 month) test.
It might have worked, it might not have worked. But we would have known. We would have had solid comparators. Most of what we do (WMF and community) has no control to establish whether it works. To be clear, I am against preventing article creation by IPs let alone non-autoconfirmed users. But this trial might well have provided compelling evidence one way or the other. The dismissal as a "we know better" was a bad thing, but not uncommon on Bugzilla. On 2 September 2014 01:06, Pete Forsyth <petefors...@gmail.com> wrote: > I hope that's not the feature Philippe meant, but maybe. For my clients and > students I think it's generally caused more confusion than it's solved, > since now they have an additional layer of bureaucracy to navigate (AFC). > Is there any data suggesting that's been a net improvement for new users? > > Pete > On Sep 1, 2014 4:38 PM, "Risker" <risker...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Wasn't the creation of the DRAFT namespace at least in part a response to > > concerns raised at ACTRIAL, in particular new, poorly developed articles > > showing up in mainspace? > > > > Risker/Anne > > > > > > On 1 September 2014 19:08, Joe Decker <joedec...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > This, to the best of my knowledge, represents the entirety of the WMF's > > > response to ACTRIAL. To the extent that there was additional feedback > > > given, it was not given at WP:ACTRIAL, nor any other venue I am aware > of. > > > > > > https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=30208 > > > > > > --Joe > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 3:44 PM, Todd Allen <toddmal...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > That's the issue I cited above. You haven't heard more complaints, > > > because > > > > the complaint was pointless the first time and took a massive effort > to > > > > produce. > > > > > > > > The underlying issue isn't fixed. We're still drowning in crap and > spam > > > > from people who never have the slightest intent of editing helpfully, > > and > > > > those who are newbies who genuinely want to help but need guidance > get > > > > caught in the crossfire aimed at the vandals and spammers. It is > > > relatively > > > > rare that when a genuinely new editor's first edit is a creation, it > is > > > the > > > > creation of an appropriate article on a workable subject, and that's > > > > normally more by dumb luck than them having actual knowledge that > they > > > > should do it. > > > > > > > > So, consider that a complaint. The proposed fix didn't work, and most > > > > people at the time didn't figure it would work, but it was clearly > the > > > best > > > > we were going to get. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 4:20 PM, Philippe Beaudette < > > > > pbeaude...@wikimedia.org > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 1, 2014, at 8:45 AM, Todd Allen <toddmal...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > That's contradicted by, among other things, ACTRIAL as mentioned > > > above. > > > > > The > > > > > > en.wp community came to a clear consensus for a major change, and > > the > > > > WMF > > > > > > shrugged and said "Nah, rather not." > > > > > > > > > > That's... Not exactly what I remember happening there. What I > > remember > > > > was > > > > > that a pretty good number (~500) of enwiki community members came > > > > together > > > > > and agreed on a problem, and one plan for how to fix it and asked > > the > > > > WMF > > > > > to implement it. The WMF evaluated it, and saw a threat to a basic > > > > project > > > > > value. WMF then asked "what's the problem you're actually trying to > > > > > solve?", and proposed and built a set of tools to directly address > > that > > > > > problem without compromising the core value of openness. And it > seems > > > to > > > > > have worked out pretty well because I haven't heard a ton of > > complaints > > > > > about that problem since. > > > > > > > > > > ______________________ > > > > > Philippe Beaudette > > > > > Director, Community Advocacy > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Joe Decker > > > www.joedecker.net > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > -- Landline (UK) 01780 757 250 Mobile (UK) 0798 1995 792 _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
