I think we agree on the important points. There's a huge potential in Wikidata, and it looks like it's in good hands. Commons could be so much better than it is.
Anthony Cole On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 3:08 PM, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hoi, > Nice that you prove my point. My point was that when proper attention would > be given to Commons, it would stand proud. Important achievements have been > made, because of Commons and its community we have GLAM (just as an > example). > > When it was possible to find images in Commons, it would no longer be > dysfunctional. It is a travesty that while we discuss search in the light > of the recent huha, we have important functionality from Wikidata that > increases the results substantially for any and all languages and the > notion that finding material in Commons (aka search) is so bad that I do > not even consider Commons for illustrations for my blog.. > > Even on this Wikimedia-l demonstrate how limited their understanding is of > what it is what we do and where we can easily even cheaply improve, > > If you want 100,000 more editors for Wikipedia (any language) there is such > a glaring opportunity that people do not even see it before them. It would > not cost much and it will improve their well being in a meaningful way. > Thanks, > GerardM > > On 25 February 2016 at 07:37, Anthony Cole <ahcole...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Yes, I guess Commons is kind of useful - as an adjunct to Wikipedia. > > Leaving aside its usefulness to Wikipedia, though, would anyone else > notice > > if it disappeared tomorrow? If they did, Flickr and Google would fill any > > gap overnight. > > > > > > > > Anthony Cole > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Gerard Meijssen < > > gerard.meijs...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Hoi, > > > You are wrong. The English Wikipedia is only brutally big. Wikidata is > > > slowly but surely becoming one of the most important resources for data > > on > > > the Internet. Commons is the biggest dysfunctional repository of freely > > > licensed material. Wikisource is where for many languages much of the > > books > > > end up (for want of new books and for the cost of publishing). > > > > > > Really. If projects like Wikidata and Commons received proper attention > > to > > > give them the credit they are due, they would improve exponentially > while > > > more attention to Wikipedia only improves things marginally. > > > > > > People who are one track ponies about Wikipedia are in fact clueless. > > They > > > forget about what we stand for; sharing the sum of all knowledge. That > > sum > > > of all knowledge is better represented in both Commons and Wikidata. > > > Thanks, > > > GerardM > > > > > > On 25 February 2016 at 07:17, Anthony Cole <ahcole...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > True, Gerard. I'm pretty sure the encyclopaedia is the only > successful > > > > Wikimedia project though, isn't it? I suppose Wikidata will be a > > success > > > > one day but, for the moment, it's the encyclopaedia that the world > > loves, > > > > it's the encyclopaedia that raises the income, it's the encyclopaedia > > > that > > > > is spreading the knowledge. On those measures - public awareness and > > > > affection, income-generation, and knowledge-dissemination, all the > > other > > > > entities are less than a drop in the ocean compared to Wikipedia. > > > > > > > > The people in these cottage industries that have grown up around this > > > host > > > > - chapters, WMF, sister-projects - too often lose sight of the fact > > that > > > > all of them have yet to prove they have had any significant > measurable > > > > impact on the distribution of knowledge. > > > > > > > > So, forgive me if I sometimes forget to include them in my thinking. > > > > > > > > Anthony Cole > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 1:31 PM, Gerard Meijssen < > > > > gerard.meijs...@gmail.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hoi, > > > > > We are not an encyclopaedia. It is only one of our products. It is > > only > > > > one > > > > > way whereby we provide content. By insisting on being focused on > that > > > > part > > > > > of what we do, we do an injustice to everything else. > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > GerardM > > > > > > > > > > On 25 February 2016 at 04:01, Anthony Cole <ahcole...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > WMF is a technology company. We are an encyclopaedia, an > > educational > > > > > > institution. We need them like I need a mechanic to keep my car > on > > > the > > > > > > road. That they have control of the encyclopaedia's budget is an > > > > > absurdity. > > > > > > The donors want to donate to (and think they are donating to) the > > > > > builders > > > > > > of an encyclopaedia, not the tech guy that maintains our laptops. > > > > > > > > > > > > Your model - essentially taking over the WMF by turning it into a > > > > > > membership organisation, and then into something that represents > > the > > > > aims > > > > > > of encyclopaedia-makers - would have the same result as starting > a > > > > > > membership organisation de novo, except for two things. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. I really like the idea of outsourcing our tech needs, so we > can > > > swap > > > > > to > > > > > > new servers and a new tech team when we get fed up with the > service > > > > being > > > > > > provided by the WMF. > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Millions of dollars already sitting in the WMF's bank > accounts. > > > > > > Following the model proposed by Denny would leave a fairly > ordinary > > > > tech > > > > > > contractor with bulging coffers. It would be nice to be able to > > take > > > > most > > > > > > of that with us, should we choose to change tech contractors. > > > Hopefully > > > > > we > > > > > > could publicly shame them into handing it over. > > > > > > > > > > > > George, the WMF, particularly under the Sue/Erik regime - but as > > best > > > > as > > > > > I > > > > > > can tell from its very beginning - has had a propensity to > > privilege > > > > its > > > > > > view of what's best over the community's view. Superprotect. > Visual > > > > > editor. > > > > > > When the community has pushed back at WMF behaviour that suits > the > > > WMF, > > > > > > that the WMF thinks helps them in their mission, the WMF has > > > > historically > > > > > > just gone ahead and ignored what the community sees as being in > the > > > > > > encyclopaedia's best interest. This bunch of tech geeks and > silicon > > > > > valley > > > > > > entrepreneurs holds the whip hand in this relationship. It really > > > > should > > > > > be > > > > > > the other way round. Denny's model; Sarah's model. I don't really > > > care. > > > > > But > > > > > > this tail-wagging-dog thing is just not right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anthony Cole > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 10:17 AM, Anthony Cole < > > ahcole...@gmail.com> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sarah, I'd prefer to see the "keeping the servers running" role > > > > > > completely > > > > > > > separate from the community. As an organised community, if we > > > become > > > > > > > dissatisfied with the service being provided by the WMF, we > could > > > > just > > > > > > sack > > > > > > > them (or not renew their contract) and take on a new > > infrastructure > > > > > > > contractor to "keep the servers running." Organised, we - the > > > people > > > > > who > > > > > > > actually created this thing and actively maintain it - could > set > > > the > > > > > > course > > > > > > > for its development. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anthony Cole > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Anthony Cole < > > > ahcole...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Sarah, if the volunteer community was organised and had its > own, > > > > > > >> functional representative body that had the community's trust > > and > > > > > > respect, > > > > > > >> that would, to some degree, correct the present asymmetry > > between > > > us > > > > > and > > > > > > >> the WMF. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Our only rights in relation to them are to fork or leave. > While > > we > > > > are > > > > > > >> atomised, the latter is our only option. Organised, forking > > > becomes > > > > a > > > > > > >> serious possibility. Of course, I hope it never comes to that. > > But > > > > > > without > > > > > > >> that possibility, we are in the position of just having to > take > > > > > whatever > > > > > > >> from the WMF - good and bad. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Anthony Cole > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 9:47 AM, SarahSV < > > sarahsv.w...@gmail.com> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 6:23 PM, Denny Vrandecic < > > > > > > >>> dvrande...@wikimedia.org> > > > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > To make a few things about the Board of Trustees clear - > > things > > > > > that > > > > > > >>> will > > > > > > >>> > be true now matter how much you reorganize it: > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > - the Board members have duties of care and loyalty to the > > > > > Foundation > > > > > > >>> - not > > > > > > >>> > to the movement. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > Hi Denny, > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> Blue Avocado, the non-profit magazine, offers a somewhat > > > different > > > > > > view. > > > > > > >>> They have published a board-member "contract" to give > > non-profit > > > > > > >>> directors > > > > > > >>> an idea of what's expected of them. It includes: > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> "... > > > > > > >>> I will interpret our constituencies' needs and values to the > > > > > > >>> organization, > > > > > > >>> speak out for their interests, and on their behalf, hold the > > > > > > organization > > > > > > >>> accountable. > > > > > > >>> " [1] > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> Sarah > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> [1] http://www.blueavocado.org/content/board-member-contract > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > > > > >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > > > >>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > >>> Unsubscribe: > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > >>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
