Robert I speak only for myself, as I presume do you. I make observations that relate to the Foundation, the wider Community and their interactions, as I presume do you. I sometimes comment on those matters here, as do you.
"Rogol" On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 9:45 PM, Peter Southwood < peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote: > Robert, > What makes you think Rogol speaks for anyone but Rogol? > Cheers, > Peter > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > Behalf Of Robert Fernandez > Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2017 8:46 PM > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] June 23: Update on Wikimedia > movement strategy process (#19) > > >By not explaining clearly to the community what was happening > >initially, > > Please don't speak for the entire community. Plenty of us thought that > their response was quite clear. > > On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 1:26 AM, Rogol Domedonfors <domedonf...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Greg and Anna > > > > This is a most interesting response and illustrates very well the > > value of transparency. By not explaining clearly to the community > > what was happening initially, the Foundation has managed to place > > itself and the community at odds, and has managed to spend ten hours > > of staff time (ten hours – really?) explaining that you are not going > > to explain the Foundation's system of financial monitoring and control > > over this multi-million dollar project. > > > > Perhaps next time a valued member of the community asks a sensible > > question about a point of financial management you will be more ready, > > willing and able to give a clear concise and informative answer to the > > community and pre-empt this sort of unproductive discussion. The more > > information you share with the community, the more acceptance, > > goodwill and trust you will build in that community, and, the better > > placed the community wil be to help you. > > > > "Rogol" > > > > On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 9:53 PM, Gregory Varnum > > <gvar...@wikimedia.org> > > wrote: > > > > > Pine, > > > > > > A proper response would take the Wikimedia Foundation some time to > > > prepare. As Anna has tried to indicate, and as evidenced by a number > > > of things, there are indeed a number of financial oversights. > > > > > > Regarding costs, as has been previously stated by the Foundation and > > > Board, the Board approved a spending resolution last year for > > > expenses related to the movement strategy of up to $2.5 million over > > > Fiscal Year > > > 2016-17 (July 2016 - June 2017) and Fiscal Year 2017-18 (July 2017 - > > > June 2018). > > > > > > On the topic of how resources are spent, I would like to share more > > > on > > the > > > cost of your request. Because you escalated in your language (e.g., > > calling > > > our financial practices lax and asking to speak to a member of the > > Board), > > > three senior leaders and two Board members have now spent time on > > > this. I imagine that your concern is genuine, but the speed with > > > which you went from asking for financial details when we have ample > > > financial oversight, to hinting at fiscal malfeasance was a bit quick. > > > > > > You may not know this, but these kinds of requests are costly, > > > particularly when it escalates with a strongly negative comment and > > > a demand to speak to a Board member. I share these figures on the > > > cost of this request thus far in the service of transparency. > > > > > > • 6: Number of staff involved in responding, including 3 senior > > > leaders • 2: Number of Board members now involved • 1.5 hours: > > > Estimated amount of Board time spent thus far • 10 hours: Estimated > > > amount of staff time spent thus far • $1,500: Estimated cost of > > > staff time (considering expenses beyond just > > > salary) > > > > > > Providing the detailed answer you have requested would require > > > considerably more time and increase the cost more. We have decided > > > not to provide that response because we have ample financial > > > oversight and we would like not to set a precedent of spending > > > resources discussing this level of detail on financial matters. You > > > are a valued member of this community, and this is not the best way > > > for us to work together. That is why we have established processes. > > > > > > We appreciate your passion and dedication to the vision and our > > > communities and hope you will read this response in the good faith > > > that > > it > > > was written. > > > > > > Greg and Anna (2 of the 6 staff involved) > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 27, 2017, at 3:38 PM, Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Anna, > > > > > > > >>> * How much is this timeline extension projected to cost, and > > > >>> from > > what > > > >>> source are the funds being drawn? (Note that this doesn't assume > > > >>> that > > > the > > > >>> decision was a bad one, but I very much want to know the source > > > >>> of > > the > > > >>> funds and how much is likely to be drawn from it.) > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> We've got this covered, Pine. We are fiscally managing this > > > >> process > > and > > > all > > > >> of our contracts well. Thank you for your concern. > > > > > > > > Please answer my question: how much is this timeline extension > > projected > > > to > > > > cost, > > > > and from what source are the funds being drawn? > > > > > > > > > > > >>> * Could you elaborate on the benefits of this timetable change > > > >>> for > > > people > > > >>> who are not involved with affiliates? We've seen some responses > > > >>> from Strainu and Yaroslov (thank you both!) and I would like to > > > >>> hear WMF's perspective. > > > >>> > > > > > > > >> The benefits of the change in the timetable are that 4/4 > > > >> stakeholder > > > > groups > > > >> told us that this was a meaningful exercise, that they are > > > >> earnestly engaged in thinking about the future, and that they > > > >> need more time for translation and conversation on this important > > > >> subject. 3/4 tracks are > > > non > > > >> affiliates (on-wiki, new voices, experts). > > > > > > > >> We agreed with them. These are meaningful conversations. We are > > > learning a > > > >> lot and we need to hear what people have to say and they need > > > >> more > > time > > > to > > > >> say it. > > > > > > > > OK, that makes sense. > > > > > > > >> > > > >> * Could you also discuss what measures are being taken to control > > costs > > > in > > > >> the strategy process? > > > >> > > > > > > > >> We have plenty of measures in place to monitor costs (e.g., we > > > >> don't > > > need > > > >> to control them because they are not out of control, we are > > > >> within our budget). Also, describing financial metrics at any > > > >> lower level of > > detail > > > >> would be a waste of the strategy budget since we are within it. > > > > > > > > I disagree with that assessment. Simply because expenses are > > > > within budget don't mean that all expenses which were charged to > > > > the budget are reasonable and accurate, and I am disappointed to > > > > hear that WMF's standards for its finances are so lax. This > > > > convinces me all the more that my original request is important > > > > for WMF to answer: please discuss what measures are being taken to > control costs in the strategy process. > > > > The level of detail that I now think WMF should provide is much > > > > higher than the level of detail with which I previously would have > > > > been > > > satisfied. > > > > My level of concern here is high enough that I am asking the WMF > > > > Audit Committee chair, Kelly, to comment on this situation. > > > > Something > > > seems > > > > very wrong here, and I am concerned about WMF's financial integrity. > > > > > > > > Pine > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 8:33 PM, Anna Stillwell < > > > astillw...@wikimedia.org> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> Hello Pine, > > > >> > > > >> Good evening. In line. > > > >> > > > >> On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> This thread is going in many directions, and I'm enjoying > > > >>> reading the conversation. > > > >>> > > > >>> If I may go back to some questions that I asked in my earlier > > > >>> post, I > > > >> would > > > >>> like to hear from Katherine (or someone else at WMF, perhaps Anna): > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> First, some context... a good deal of this has been iterative by > > > design. We > > > >> had an overarching idea of where we were headed (e.g. a shared > > direction > > > >> first, roles and responsibilities second), but then we knew we > > > >> would > > > learn > > > >> to refine or course correct based on what we hear. > > > >> > > > >> We've been hearing to extend the timeline on all > > > >> fronts--organized > > > groups > > > >> and affiliates (e.g., time for conversation), on wiki (e.g., time > > > >> for translation and conversation) and new voices and experts > > > >> (e.g., "we've > > > seen > > > >> all of the data but our communities have yet to see and reflect > > > >> upon it")... so that is the background reasoning. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>> * How much is this timeline extension projected to cost, and > > > >>> from > > what > > > >>> source are the funds being drawn? (Note that this doesn't assume > > > >>> that > > > the > > > >>> decision was a bad one, but I very much want to know the source > > > >>> of > > the > > > >>> funds and how much is likely to be drawn from it.) > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> We've got this covered, Pine. We are fiscally managing this > > > >> process > > and > > > all > > > >> of our contracts well. Thank you for your concern. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>> * Could you elaborate on the benefits of this timetable change > > > >>> for > > > people > > > >>> who are not involved with affiliates? We've seen some responses > > > >>> from Strainu and Yaroslov (thank you both!) and I would like to > > > >>> hear WMF's perspective. > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> The benefits of the change in the timetable are that 4/4 > > > >> stakeholder > > > groups > > > >> told us that this was a meaningful exercise, that they are > > > >> earnestly engaged in thinking about the future, and that they > > > >> need more time for translation and conversation on this important > > > >> subject. 3/4 tracks are > > > non > > > >> affiliates (on-wiki, new voices, experts). > > > >> > > > >> We agreed with them. These are meaningful conversations. We are > > > learning a > > > >> lot and we need to hear what people have to say and they need > > > >> more > > time > > > to > > > >> say it. > > > >> > > > >>> > > > >>> * Could you also discuss what measures are being taken to > > > >>> control > > costs > > > >> in > > > >>> the strategy process? > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> We have plenty of measures in place to monitor costs (e.g., we > > > >> don't > > > need > > > >> to control them because they are not out of control, we are > > > >> within our budget). Also, describing financial metrics at any > > > >> lower level of > > detail > > > >> would be a waste of the strategy budget since we are within it. > > > >> > > > >> Always good to hear from you, > > > >> /a > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>> > > > >>> Thanks, > > > >>> > > > >>> Pine > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: > > > >>> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > >>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscr > > > >>> ibe> > > > >>> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: > > > >> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > >> Unsubscribe: > > > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > , > > > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscri > > > >> be> > > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
