Hello Shani, I lurk here, but don't really post. I am a regular poster at Wikipediocracy where I saw a discussion of this thread. I'll make one specific comment and one general comment.
When I read the RfC and I got to proposal #4, I thought that it might just as well have been written specifically with Rogol in mind. And I am pretty sure I was not the only person who thought so. Seeing this proposal, Rogol would definitely have felt that a bulls-eye was painted on their back, which might have contributed to the flare-up. My thoughts on the flare-up itself are available at Wikipediocracy for those who want to look; I don't wish to derail the thread here. Now, I come to the broader issues. Obviously, this is a moderated list, and the moderators have discretion. I would like to make two points. They are not original or Earth-shaking, just relevant. 1. The Wikimedia "community", such as it exists, is very diverse: not only in makeup, but also in viewpoints. 2. Wikipedia and other Wikimedia projects have a lot of influence on the world. Therefore, one should err on the side of allowing more open discussion. Nobody here is forced to read or respond to Rogol's posts. I am sure people here know how to configure their email clients to filter messages. Kingsindian (User: Kingsindian on en.wp) On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 3:15 PM, Shani Evenstein <shani.e...@gmail.com> wrote: > Dear Wikimedia-l, > > Rogol has been placed under moderation, but at this point no decision has > been made to ban him from the list. As long as his messages are reasonable, > respectful and on point, his messages will go through. We agreed that it is > important to allow a diversity of voices to be heard, including those of > "frequent flyers" in the list, especially as we work collaboratively on > next steps towards a healthier community atmosphere. > > In addition, we are asking everyone to refrain from focusing on specific > individuals posting to the list, put any personal issues aside and stay on > problem. We want as many people as possible to productively and objectively > participate in the discussion, till we draft clearer guidelines for posting > to the list. We are aware that these guidelines will not automagically fix > all of our issues as a global community, but we believe they will help > reduce the noise substantially. Do keep on debating. We are trying to > intervene as little as possible at this point and let the debate run its > course. > > Best, > Shani Evenstein, on behalf of the Wikimedia-l Admins. > > On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 8:52 PM, James Salsman <jsals...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Why are we having this RFC prior to the survey which was discussed at > > length less than a year ago? > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:James_Salsman# > > Periodic_survey_prototype > > > > On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 1:05 AM, Robert Fernandez > > <wikigamal...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Since Rogol has followed through on his threat he should be banned from > > the > > > list, or we should have a public statement from the moderators > regarding > > > why they will not do so. > > > > > > I can't imagine many actions that would have a more chilling effect on > > > participation here than one of this list's most frequent posters > > contacting > > > your employer because he disagrees with what you have to say. > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 7:57 AM, Joseph Seddon <jsed...@wikimedia.org> > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Since you kindly emailed my line manage Rogol, I wanted to confirm > that > > my > > >> choice of words were very carefully chosen. > > >> > > >> And I stand by them. > > >> > > >> Seddon > > >> > > >> On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 8:25 PM, Rogol Domedonfors < > > domedonf...@gmail.com> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> > Joseph > > >> > > > >> > I chose my wording quite carefully, and suggest that you do so > too. I > > >> said > > >> > that the proposal "involves", not "is equal to" real-life identity > To > > >> the > > >> > extent that real-life identities are involved, it is reasonable to > ask > > >> how > > >> > that personal information is going to be handled. For some reason, > > you > > >> > seem keen to derail that part of the discussion by elevating a > quibble > > >> over > > >> > your hasty misunderstanding of my wording into an accusation, which > I > > >> > reject, of generalised misconduct. If you have some comment to make > > >> about > > >> > the handling of personal information, please do so. > > >> > > > >> > May I suggest that you withdraw your original posting, apologise to > > the > > >> > membership of this list for the unconstructive nature of your > posting, > > >> and > > >> > to me for its aggressive, insulting and incorrect content. > > >> Alternatively, > > >> > perhaps you would prefer me to ask your line manager whether this is > > the > > >> > sort of behaviour that she expects you to exhibit in a public forum. > > >> > > > >> > Reginald > > >> > > > >> > On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 8:07 PM, Joseph Seddon < > jsed...@wikimedia.org > > > > > >> > wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > Real identity does not equal real-life identity. You can mask your > > >> > > pseudonymous identity and pose as a third party similarly > > pseudonymous > > >> > > individual. > > >> > > > > >> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_(Internet) > > >> > > > > >> > > Seddon > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > >> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > >> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > >> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > >> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > >> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject= > > unsubscribe> > > >> > > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > >> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > >> > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > >> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > , > > >> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject= > unsubscribe> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Seddon > > >> > > >> *Advancement Associate (Community Engagement)* > > >> *Wikimedia Foundation* > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > >> wiki/Wikimedia-l > > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > , > > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
