I can't tell which part of this situation is the more sad; is it the events themselves, the total absence of any comment from AffCom, or the very limited interest evinced by the rest of the folks subscribed to this list?
It seems if we follow the AffCom model described here, we should take WMPT at its word as the complainant and decide that AffCom should perhaps be disbanded - maybe to be reconstituted by others at a later date. Perhaps those others would feel themselves responsible to a constituency beyond themselves, at least to the minimal extent that they deign to offer a response of some sort in public. If that sounds like an extreme and unfair outcome, I might even agree... but it's clear that AffCom itself sees some logic in that approach. On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 1:02 PM Chris Keating <chriskeatingw...@gmail.com> wrote: > I think there's a question to think about, about how the movement > handles this kind of situation where there are evidently serious > governance problems affecting an affiliate. > > There are some clear-cut situations (e.g. total inactivity) where the > current de-recognition process can simply be followed by Affcom. And > there are some situations where there is a large and prominent > affiliate that has plenty of activity, but serious governance issues, > where the WMF Grantmaking and/or Legal teams can get involved in some > depth (thinking about Wikimedia UK in 2012 and Wikimedia France in > 2017). > > This is the only case that's "in the middle" that I am aware of - are > there more that have been made public? Of course, it's possible that > there may be other cases where a small/medium affiliate has been > helped to have their governance problems resolved by one process or > another (derecognition or something else) but it's happened silently > in the background. > > Chris > On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 5:29 PM Paulo Santos Perneta > <paulospern...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Just a quick message to clarify that the only conflict that ever existed > in > > Wikimedia Portugal, as far as I know, was with João Vasconcelos himself. > > > > Paulo > > > > Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> > > escreveu no dia quinta, 11/10/2018 à(s) 15:38: > > > > > The pro forma statement bout what a chapter is is valuable, but I > think > > > many of us kinda got the idea that the problem was not the starting > point > > > (otherwise why electing him?) but came later. It's possible that > someone > > > else with more community experience would have never behaved such way, > but > > > that's speculation. > > > > > > Statistically, in this scenario this lack of community view probably > did > > > not help. Whatever his skills in "management and conflict resolution" > were, > > > even assuming they were correctly stated based on previous expertise in > > > other fields, they were not the best ones to handle the conflicts that > > > later emerged. Also, considering the resolution we see now, which is > not a > > > great resolution. > > > The point is that in all these disputes (I think about Brazil few > months > > > ago) it looks like the AffCom position sounds like "you are both > wrong". > > > Now, this is never a healthy long-term strategy. If it occurs again, it > > > gives more and more the idea that whoever is in the less correct > position > > > can hold still because if the matter arrives to the AffCom everybody > pays > > > equally. I am sure the situation is more multifaceted, but let's try to > > > grasp the general vibe here. > > > > > > This is not wise. King Solomon solved the issue bluffing and spotting > the > > > real mother, he never actually cut the baby in two halves ... But > wisdom > > > comes also with experience. > > > Il giovedì 11 ottobre 2018, 15:43:01 CEST, GoEthe.wiki < > > > goethe.w...@gmail.com> ha scritto: > > > > > > Hi Illario, > > > > > > Apologies, I probably explained myself poorly. I never said that a > chapter > > > is a representative of the Wikimedia community, rather I was trying to > > > explain that João’s claimed experience (emphasis on claimed) in > management > > > and conflict resolution was a major factor in him being elected to the > > > Board. At the time, WMPT thought that that could be very valuable to > the > > > chapter. So, we agree, a heterogeneous board is absolutely an > advantage, > > > but in this case the issue was not one of diversity, but rather of > > > competence and alignment to the movement goals and principles. > > > > > > In practice, he did not contribute to the management of the chapter, > and he > > > was not prepared to an increase of the chapter activities. He very > quickly > > > started demonstrating uneasiness with any procedural decision he did > not > > > personally vet (which are imperative in volunteer-based, collaborative > > > projects), and soon after, without any previous warning, started > sending > > > legal threats going as far as using a lawyer to intimidate one of our > most > > > active members on behalf of WMPT (without discussing it with anyone > > > beforehand), and resigned. > > > > > > We have no intention to expose João even more in this public mailing > list, > > > so we will not provide a comprehensive list of the problems we found > with > > > his term on the board. But to make it clear, when this whole issue > began to > > > be addressed, even though we did not ask him to stay on the Board, we > did > > > invite him to continue on the chapter, working with us, as AffCom can > > > confirm. Just not in any role with legal responsibilities. > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Gonçalo Themudo > > > > > > *Presidente* > > > *Wikimedia Portugal* > > > *Email: *goethe.w...@gmail.com > > > *Website: *http://pt.wikimedia.org < > https://sites.google.com/view/themudo> > > > *Imagine um mundo onde cada ser humano pode partilhar livremente a > soma de > > > todo o conhecimento, na sua própria língua.* > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
