(Hit send too early). To my mind the larger problem is that the content becomes static over time, Rather than growing and evolving as it does with many of our more successful Projects.
On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 9:25 AM Philippe Beaudette <phili...@beaudette.me> wrote: > Respectfully Disagree. They can formulate questions, coordinate and fact > check answers... and that’s off the top of my head. > > That said I think wikinews is fundamentally not one is our success > stories, but I don’t agree with what my friend Ziko said there. There are > many roles for community there. > > On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 9:15 AM Ziko van Dijk <zvand...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> One of the central problems of Wikinews is that the content is not >> suitable for collaboration. >> >> Content suitable for collaboration is related to a reality to which >> the collaborators equally have access. Think if an encyclopedia based >> on scholarly literature that (potentially) everybody can find in a >> library. >> >> When a journalist has spoken to her 'sources' (relevant people), she >> is the one who had a special access to theses sources. The editors in >> the wiki did not have this access. They can correct typos but do >> little more. >> >> Kind regards >> Ziko >> >> >> >> Am Fr., 26. Apr. 2019 um 00:43 Uhr schrieb Philippe Beaudette >> <phili...@beaudette.me>: >> > >> > The very smart Mr. Lih sayeth: >> > >> > I have been a fan of the times Wikinews did original interviews with >> > notable folks [1] so this is perhaps a sustainable niche. But as a >> direct >> > news wire competitor to AP, Reuters or AFP, no. >> > >> > [1] >> > >> https://en.m.wikinews.org/wiki/Shimon_Peres_discusses_the_future_of_Israel >> > >> > Me too. In fact, I think this is something that Wikinews has always >> done >> > very well. It also strikes me as an excellent, and quite functional, >> use >> > for a Wiki. A wikivoices or wiki-interviews type project would be a >> fine >> > addition to the ecosystem, imho. And it is very reasonable to think >> that >> > given its success in this area, Wikinews could very easily pivot to fill >> > that spot. >> > >> > But a news competitor to traditional news outlets? Nope, that it isn't. >> > >> > Philippe >> > >> > On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 4:05 PM Andrew Lih <andrew....@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > >> > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 4:23 PM Jennifer Pryor-Summers < >> > > jennifer.pryorsumm...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > > >> > > > Andrew >> > > > >> > > > It seems to me that you're saying that, on the one hand, the >> policies >> > > that >> > > > make Wikipedia work well as an encyclopaedia (NOR, RS, V, NORUSH) >> are a >> > > > poor fit for a news-gathering operation and on the other hand, >> Wikipedia >> > > is >> > > > a success as a news-gathering operation. These seem inconsistent >> to me. >> > > >> > > >> > > As Wikimedians we are secondary source news summarizers rather than >> primary >> > > source news gatherers. That’s where the difference lies primarily. >> > > >> > > I have been a fan of the times Wikinews did original interviews with >> > > notable folks [1] so this is perhaps a sustainable niche. But as a >> direct >> > > news wire competitor to AP, Reuters or AFP, no. >> > > >> > > [1] >> > > >> https://en.m.wikinews.org/wiki/Shimon_Peres_discusses_the_future_of_Israel >> > > >> > > >> > > > However, I conclude from what you're saying that the best way >> forward is >> > > to >> > > > fold the Wikinews operation into Wikipedia. Is that right? >> > > >> > > >> > > Fold Wikinews altogether so it doesn’t confuse the public. Wikipedia >> > > editors are already doing a stellar job. >> > > >> > > Andrew >> > > >> > > >> > > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 8:15 PM Andrew Lih <andrew....@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 2:27 PM Jennifer Pryor-Summers < >> > > > > jennifer.pryorsumm...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Wikinews may not be doing too well, but (English-language) >> Wikipedia >> > > > > seems >> > > > > > to have taken up a news-gathering role not entirely consistent >> with >> > > its >> > > > > > encyclopediac mission: perhaps that's the reason. Maybe the WMF >> > > should >> > > > > > sort out the demarcation issues. >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > Jennifer, >> > > > > >> > > > > This has been a topic of discussion for more than a decade and >> the vast >> > > > > majority of the community has converged on the conclusion that >> Wikinews >> > > > > hasn't and won't ever work at any scale given its fundamental >> > > properties. >> > > > > >> > > > > News is often described as "the best obtainable version of the >> truth >> > > > given >> > > > > the constraints of a deadline." News depends on memorializing >> direct >> > > > > observation at a point in time. Therefore, the following policies >> that >> > > > make >> > > > > Wikipedia work are a bad fit for original, deadline reporting: >> > > > > >> > > > > Wikipedia:NOR - no original research >> > > > > Wikipedia:RS - requirement for reliable sources >> > > > > Wikipedia:V - verifiability >> > > > > Wikipedia:NORUSH - there is no deadline/eventualism >> > > > > >> > > > > Most anyone who tries Wikinews first hand will experience this >> mismatch >> > > > and >> > > > > realize it is a poor fit. >> > > > > >> > > > > However, rather than lament why Wikinews doesn't work, we should >> > > > celebrate >> > > > > the fact that we have found a better mode: entries that evolve >> minute >> > > to >> > > > > minute (oftentimes second to second) to best reflect the world as >> we >> > > know >> > > > > it. Embrace that new, live, constantly updated snapshot of >> reality – >> > > the >> > > > > Wikipedia article. >> > > > > >> > > > > If you want to see some of the earlier debates about the origins >> of >> > > > > Wikinews, October 2004 is a good place to look: >> > > > > [1] >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2004-October/thread.html >> > > > > [2] >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2004-October/061017.html >> > > > > >> > > > > -Andrew >> > > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> > > > > Unsubscribe: >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org >> ?subject=unsubscribe> >> > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> > > > Unsubscribe: >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org >> ?subject=unsubscribe> >> > > >> > > -- >> > > -Andrew Lih >> > > Author of The Wikipedia Revolution >> > > US National Archives Citizen Archivist of the Year (2016) >> > > Knight Foundation grant recipient - Wikipedia Space (2015) >> > > Wikimedia DC - Outreach and GLAM >> > > Previously: professor of journalism and communications, American >> > > University, Columbia University, USC >> > > --- >> > > Email: and...@andrewlih.com >> > > WEB: https://muckrack.com/fuzheado >> > > PROJECT: Wikipedia Space: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:WPSPACE >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l >> , >> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > -- > Philippe Beaudette > phili...@beaudette.me > -- Philippe Beaudette phili...@beaudette.me _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
