Nathan writes: *“Why are WMF staffers so*
*deeply, fundamentally disconnected from the communities where they feel the* *right to ban people for saying "fuck arbcom"?”* I’ve seen no evidence that this is the case here and would be utterly shocked if a t&s staff member had indeed banned for saying that. If the situation is anything like what it was when I was at WMF, a ban such as this requires multiple levels of review by a couple of different teams (in my time, we would not have considered a ban such as this without sign off from the community and legal teams, for instance). I don’t know if the process is the same now but I would be surprised to hear that any single staff member would feel comfortable banning on his or her authority alone. Multiple levels of review exist in order to ensure that ban reasons are valid and appropriate. Philippe On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 6:55 PM Nathan <nawr...@gmail.com> wrote: > Wow, what a cluster. How does the WMF get themselves into these things? I > have ten edits to en.wp since 2018 and even I could have 100% predicted the > entire spectrum, and scale, of the reaction here. Why are WMF staffers so > deeply, fundamentally disconnected from the communities where they feel the > right to ban people for saying "fuck arbcom"? > > On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 3:49 PM Todd Allen <toddmal...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Amir, yes, ArbCom members must sign the WMF confidentiality agreement for > > nonpublic information ( > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Confidentiality_agreement_for_nonpublic_information > > ) > > , as must all functionaries (checkuser, oversight, etc.). I was on the > > English Wikipedia ArbCom for two years, and it was routine for us to deal > > with sensitive, private information. > > > > Todd > > > > On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 9:46 AM Amir Sarabadani <ladsgr...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > People who oppose the ban: Are you aware of all aspects and things Fram > > has > > > done? Do you have the full picture? It's really saddening to see how > fast > > > people jump to conclusion in page mentioned in the email. I personally, > > > don't know what happened so I neither can support or oppose the ban. As > > > simple as that. > > > > > > So what should be done IMO. If enwiki wants to know more, a community > > body > > > can ask for more information, if body satisfy two things: > > > - They had signed NDA not to disclose the case > > > - They are trusted by the community > > > > > > I think the only body can sorta work with this is stewards but not sure > > > (Does ArbCom NDA'ed?) > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 3:58 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < > > > paulospern...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > Lack of transparency from the WMF, whatelse is new. > > > > I'm currently under a funding ban secretly decided (by who?) based > on a > > > > false accusation, without providing any evidence. Until now I'm > waiting > > > for > > > > an explanation from the WMF. So, this sort of attitude doesn't > surprise > > > me > > > > at all. > > > > It is very unfortunate that the WMF apparently thrives in this kind > of > > > > medieval obscurity, the opposite of the values of the Wikimedia > > Movement. > > > > Matter for Roles & Reponsibilities. > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > Paulo > > > > > > > > > > > > Benjamin Ikuta <benjaminik...@gmail.com> escreveu no dia terça, > > > 11/06/2019 > > > > à(s) 05:45: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for this. > > > > > > > > > > I'm glad to see I'm not the only one dismayed by the unilateralism > > and > > > > > lack of transparency. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 10, 2019, at 8:25 PM, Techman224 <techman...@techman224.ca> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Forwarding to WIkimedia-l since WikiEN-l is relatively dead. > > > > > > > > > > > > Since this message, an Arbcom member (SilkTork) stated that they > > > > weren't > > > > > consulted, nor did this action was the result of Arbcom forwarding > a > > > > > concern to the office. [1] > > > > > > > > > > > > The only non-response excuse from the WMF [2] was that "local > > > > > communities consistently struggle to uphold not just their own > > > autonomous > > > > > rules but the Terms of Use, too.” even though there were no > > complaints > > > > > on-wiki nor to Arbcom privately. > > > > > > > > > > > > The on-wiki discussion is taking place at the Bureaucrats and the > > > > Arbcom > > > > > noticeboards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bureaucrats%27_noticeboard#User:Fram_banned_for_1_year_by_WMF_office > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bureaucrats'_noticeboard#User:Fram_banned_for_1_year_by_WMF_office > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Committee/Noticeboard#Request_for_ArbCom_to_comment_publicly_on_Fram's_ban > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Committee/Noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=901300528 > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Committee/Noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=901300528 > > > > > > > > > > > > [2] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bureaucrats%27_noticeboard#Statement_from_the_WMF_Trust_&_Safety_Team > > > > > > > > > > > > Techman224 > > > > > > > > > > > >> Begin forwarded message: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> From: George Herbert <george.herb...@gmail.com> > > > > > >> Subject: [WikiEN-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block > > > > > >> Date: June 10, 2019 at 8:54:34 PM CDT > > > > > >> To: English Wikipedia <wikie...@lists.wikimedia.org> > > > > > >> Reply-To: English Wikipedia <wikie...@lists.wikimedia.org> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> In case you're not following on-wiki - Office S&T blocked > English > > > > > Wikipedia > > > > > >> user / administrator Fram for a year and desysopped, for > > unspecified > > > > > >> reasons in the Office purview. There was a brief statement here > > > from > > > > > >> Office regarding it which gave no details other than that normal > > > > policy > > > > > and > > > > > >> procedures for Office actions were followed, which under normal > > > > > >> circumstances preclude public comments. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bureaucrats%27_noticeboard#User:Fram_banned_for_1_year_by_WMF_office > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Several people on Arbcom and board have commented they're making > > > > private > > > > > >> inquiries under normal reporting and communication channels, due > > to > > > > the > > > > > >> oddity and essentially uniqueness of the action. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> There was an initial surge of dismay which has mellowed IMHO > into > > > "Ok, > > > > > >> responsible people following up". > > > > > >> > > > > > >> I understand the sensitivity of some of the topics under Office > > > > actions, > > > > > >> having done OTRS and other various had-to-stay-private stuff > > myself > > > at > > > > > >> times in the past. A high profile investigation target is most > > > > unusual > > > > > but > > > > > >> not unheard of. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> I did send email to Fram earlier today asking if they had any > > public > > > > > >> comment, no reply as yet. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> -- > > > > > >> -george william herbert > > > > > >> george.herb...@gmail.com > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > > >> WikiEN-l mailing list > > > > > >> wikie...@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > > > > > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Amir (he/him) > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> -- Philippe Beaudette phili...@beaudette.me _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
