I would like to reserve the right to say "fuck arbcom", "fuck the WMF", or "fuck the admins", just like I deserve the right to say "fuck the police" or "fuck the judiciary system".
Regardless whether you think so or not, I dont think that's within WMFs remit to police and enforce. On Wed, Jun 12, 2019, 10:09 Chris Keating <chriskeatingw...@gmail.com> wrote: > I think we should probably reflect on the fact we've got to the point where > arguments along the lines of > > "This guy shouldn't be blocked, he was only telling people to fuck > themselves" > > are sort of normal. > > This kind of behaviour wouldn't be acceptable in any other movement or > community or workplace... Why here? > > (Also I think it's clear this was not the only issue... so while I have > some concerns about the "how" here, I'm struggling to disagree with the > outcome) > > Chris > > On Wed, 12 Jun 2019, 07:44 Yair Rand, <yyairr...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Philippe, the email from Trust & Safety said quite clearly that the ban > was > > triggered by edit 895438118. I assume that T&S would not lie about their > > reasons for something like this. > > > > בתאריך יום ג׳, 11 ביוני 2019 ב-22:35 מאת Philippe Beaudette < > > phili...@beaudette.me>: > > > > > Nathan writes: > > > > > > *“Why are WMF staffers so* > > > > > > *deeply, fundamentally disconnected from the communities where they > feel > > > the* > > > *right to ban people for saying "fuck arbcom"?”* > > > > > > > > > I’ve seen no evidence that this is the case here and would be utterly > > > shocked if a t&s staff member had indeed banned for saying that. > > > > > > If the situation is anything like what it was when I was at WMF, a ban > > such > > > as this requires multiple levels of review by a couple of different > teams > > > (in my time, we would not have considered a ban such as this without > sign > > > off from the community and legal teams, for instance). I don’t know if > > the > > > process is the same now but I would be surprised to hear that any > single > > > staff member would feel comfortable banning on his or her authority > > alone. > > > Multiple levels of review exist in order to ensure that ban reasons are > > > valid and appropriate. > > > > > > Philippe > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 6:55 PM Nathan <nawr...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > Wow, what a cluster. How does the WMF get themselves into these > > things? I > > > > have ten edits to en.wp since 2018 and even I could have 100% > predicted > > > the > > > > entire spectrum, and scale, of the reaction here. Why are WMF > staffers > > so > > > > deeply, fundamentally disconnected from the communities where they > feel > > > the > > > > right to ban people for saying "fuck arbcom"? > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 3:49 PM Todd Allen <toddmal...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Amir, yes, ArbCom members must sign the WMF confidentiality > agreement > > > for > > > > > nonpublic information ( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Confidentiality_agreement_for_nonpublic_information > > > > > ) > > > > > , as must all functionaries (checkuser, oversight, etc.). I was on > > the > > > > > English Wikipedia ArbCom for two years, and it was routine for us > to > > > deal > > > > > with sensitive, private information. > > > > > > > > > > Todd > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 9:46 AM Amir Sarabadani < > ladsgr...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > People who oppose the ban: Are you aware of all aspects and > things > > > Fram > > > > > has > > > > > > done? Do you have the full picture? It's really saddening to see > > how > > > > fast > > > > > > people jump to conclusion in page mentioned in the email. I > > > personally, > > > > > > don't know what happened so I neither can support or oppose the > > ban. > > > As > > > > > > simple as that. > > > > > > > > > > > > So what should be done IMO. If enwiki wants to know more, a > > community > > > > > body > > > > > > can ask for more information, if body satisfy two things: > > > > > > - They had signed NDA not to disclose the case > > > > > > - They are trusted by the community > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the only body can sorta work with this is stewards but > not > > > sure > > > > > > (Does ArbCom NDA'ed?) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 3:58 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < > > > > > > paulospern...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lack of transparency from the WMF, whatelse is new. > > > > > > > I'm currently under a funding ban secretly decided (by who?) > > based > > > > on a > > > > > > > false accusation, without providing any evidence. Until now I'm > > > > waiting > > > > > > for > > > > > > > an explanation from the WMF. So, this sort of attitude doesn't > > > > surprise > > > > > > me > > > > > > > at all. > > > > > > > It is very unfortunate that the WMF apparently thrives in this > > kind > > > > of > > > > > > > medieval obscurity, the opposite of the values of the Wikimedia > > > > > Movement. > > > > > > > Matter for Roles & Reponsibilities. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > Paulo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Benjamin Ikuta <benjaminik...@gmail.com> escreveu no dia > terça, > > > > > > 11/06/2019 > > > > > > > à(s) 05:45: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm glad to see I'm not the only one dismayed by the > > > unilateralism > > > > > and > > > > > > > > lack of transparency. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 10, 2019, at 8:25 PM, Techman224 < > > > techman...@techman224.ca> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Forwarding to WIkimedia-l since WikiEN-l is relatively > dead. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since this message, an Arbcom member (SilkTork) stated that > > > they > > > > > > > weren't > > > > > > > > consulted, nor did this action was the result of Arbcom > > > forwarding > > > > a > > > > > > > > concern to the office. [1] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only non-response excuse from the WMF [2] was that > "local > > > > > > > > communities consistently struggle to uphold not just their > own > > > > > > autonomous > > > > > > > > rules but the Terms of Use, too.” even though there were no > > > > > complaints > > > > > > > > on-wiki nor to Arbcom privately. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The on-wiki discussion is taking place at the Bureaucrats > and > > > the > > > > > > > Arbcom > > > > > > > > noticeboards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bureaucrats%27_noticeboard#User:Fram_banned_for_1_year_by_WMF_office > > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bureaucrats'_noticeboard#User:Fram_banned_for_1_year_by_WMF_office > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Committee/Noticeboard#Request_for_ArbCom_to_comment_publicly_on_Fram's_ban > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Committee/Noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=901300528 > > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Committee/Noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=901300528 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [2] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bureaucrats%27_noticeboard#Statement_from_the_WMF_Trust_&_Safety_Team > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Techman224 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Begin forwarded message: > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> From: George Herbert <george.herb...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > > >> Subject: [WikiEN-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block > > > > > > > > >> Date: June 10, 2019 at 8:54:34 PM CDT > > > > > > > > >> To: English Wikipedia <wikie...@lists.wikimedia.org> > > > > > > > > >> Reply-To: English Wikipedia <wikie...@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> In case you're not following on-wiki - Office S&T blocked > > > > English > > > > > > > > Wikipedia > > > > > > > > >> user / administrator Fram for a year and desysopped, for > > > > > unspecified > > > > > > > > >> reasons in the Office purview. There was a brief > statement > > > here > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > >> Office regarding it which gave no details other than that > > > normal > > > > > > > policy > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > >> procedures for Office actions were followed, which under > > > normal > > > > > > > > >> circumstances preclude public comments. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bureaucrats%27_noticeboard#User:Fram_banned_for_1_year_by_WMF_office > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> Several people on Arbcom and board have commented they're > > > making > > > > > > > private > > > > > > > > >> inquiries under normal reporting and communication > channels, > > > due > > > > > to > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > >> oddity and essentially uniqueness of the action. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> There was an initial surge of dismay which has mellowed > IMHO > > > > into > > > > > > "Ok, > > > > > > > > >> responsible people following up". > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> I understand the sensitivity of some of the topics under > > > Office > > > > > > > actions, > > > > > > > > >> having done OTRS and other various had-to-stay-private > stuff > > > > > myself > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > >> times in the past. A high profile investigation target is > > > most > > > > > > > unusual > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > >> not unheard of. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> I did send email to Fram earlier today asking if they had > > any > > > > > public > > > > > > > > >> comment, no reply as yet. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> -- > > > > > > > > >> -george william herbert > > > > > > > > >> george.herb...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > >> WikiEN-l mailing list > > > > > > > > >> wikie...@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > > >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > > > > > > > > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > > > > 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