I don't believe we can presume everyone who hasn't participated in the discussion would like to disagree but is afraid to.
Among all active contributors, I suspect non-participants are mostly a mix of unaware of the issue, don't have a strong opinion about the issue, don't understand what's happening and don't want to devote the time to understanding it, or don't care. Given the WMF's actions, there may indeed even be some who do not like what they've done, but are afraid to be seen speaking against them--look what happened to the last guy! And of course some people on both sides might be hesitant to enter a discussion that's rather heated and very fast-moving, not to mention the sheer size of the page to read just to catch up on what already happened. So, pretty much every discussion is decided by those who choose to participate in it. I don't know any way around that; we can't force people to participate. At some point, if you don't stick your hand up, you don't get counted. Todd On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 3:10 PM Rebecca O'Neill <rebeccanin...@gmail.com> wrote: > Just you reply to your point on how many people are speaking out against > this decision, I'm a relatively active and interested editor and I have no > interest in voicing my opinion there as the atmosphere is so toxic. There > is always a danger of the tyranny of a vocal and motivated minority > appearing to be the dominant opinion of the community as a whole. I would > proffer that that is a deeply flawed premise, if we were to take into > account the number of people engaged in this discussion and compare it to > the number of regular contributors. > > On Wed 12 Jun 2019, 22:01 Yaroslav Blanter, <ymb...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Just to summarize the difference between WMF and ArbCom, in view of the > > majority of the en.wiki community: > > > > We elect ArbCom, and if they do not do what they should be doing, they do > > not get re-elected in two years, which happens on a regular basis > > > > We do not elect WMF and in fact we have no means of influencing WMF > (apart > > of the three Trustees we elect every three years who are themselves > > typically alienated from the community). Short of taking down the > > fundraiser banner or of organizing a Wikipedia blackout. > > > > This is the difference, and this is why virtually everybody who had to > say > > smth about this episode was unhappy with the process. Without looking at > > the diffs, I only remember three users who were perfectly happy with what > > happened, out of hundreds who said smth. > > > > One unfortunate consequence of the whole episode was, whoever is right > and > > whoever is wrong, the general opinion about WMF in the community is > > all-time low, with people generally not prepared to believe to anything > > communicated to them. If WMF is not interested in getting very unpleasant > > surprises, they should start working towards building the community > trust. > > > > Cheers > > Yaroslav > > > > On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 10:48 PM GorillaWarfare < > > gorillawarfarewikipe...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 8:36 AM Fæ <fae...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > Any Arbcom approved sanction against Fram based on the evidence would > > not > > > > be controversial for anyone. > > > > > > > > > Sorry for coming in late to this conversation; I've mostly been > following > > > the sicussion happening on-wiki. But I wanted to pipe up to say that I > > > absolutely do not believe this is true (see also my comment here > > > < > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Committee/Noticeboard&type=revision&diff=901559520&oldid=901559137&diffmode=source > > > >). > > > To repeat my comment somewhat, the English Wikipedia ArbCom has in the > > past > > > had to place similar bans: that is, ones against long-term contributors > > > with many supporters, and ones in which the full details behind what > led > > to > > > the ban cannot be revealed publicly. The reaction has been quite > similar > > to > > > the one the WMF is currently experiencing—"star chamber" accusations, > > > claims that we've abused our power or the process, and assumptions that > > the > > > ban is unwarranted unless everyone is allowed to scrutinize the private > > > evidence. The ArbCom is empowered to take action based off of > > > privately-submitted evidence and private discussion, but in practice it > > is > > > extremely poorly-received when we do, basically across-the-board. > > > > > > – Molly (GorillaWarfare) > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:GorillaWarfare > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
