To expand on the last part of my previous post, one of the things that Peter and other posters are doing that is problematic in my eyes is phrasing their opinions as fact. It is quite clear to me why Dan was put on moderation. So it is a false statement to say that "this is patently unclear". I believe that opinion should be stated as such. When I see opinion being spun as fact, I am less interested in reading the rest of such a message, and that writer loses credibility in my eyes.
Paul --------- Original Message --------- Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] A Universal Code of Conduct draft for review From: "Peter Southwood" <peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> Date: 9/11/20 4:20 am To: "Wikimedia Mailing List" <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> In that case, can we please have an explanation of exactly how the relevant text was found to be inappropriate, as this is patently unclear, and apparently the reason for all this debate. I have my own speculation, but as it is speculation, it would be inappropriate to publicise unless there is no official explanation. Cheers, Peter -----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Asaf Bartov Sent: 11 September 2020 11:46 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] A Universal Code of Conduct draft for review No, it is not "forbidden words" that are the problem, and we have no intention of maintaining a list. We expect list subscribers to maintain civil discourse, which does include avoiding vulgarity, and expressing oneself with respect to both one's interlocutors (or addressees of criticism) and the broader audience. Happily, this is something more than 99 percent of subscribers manage to do without effort. As I have repeatedly clarified, respectful discourse absolutely does not preclude criticism. Indeed, it is liable to make the criticism more likely to be heard. A. On Fri, 11 Sep 2020, 12:26 Peter Southwood <peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote: > Is there somewhere we can refer to the list of offensive and unacceptable > expressions, and how they are determined? > Cheers, > Peter > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > Behalf > Of Anders Wennersten > Sent: 11 September 2020 10:33 > To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] A Universal Code of Conduct draft for review > > There are many of us on this list who have given the feedback we find > that expression offensive and unacceptable. > > Do not forget the readers of this list comes from may different cultures > and if you and the people close to you find it "acceptable" it is not a > valid judgment for all, and why do you want us to leave this list just > so you can use a language like that. (I certainly would if that was > accepted as a norm) > > The language on this list is English, it means we non-native have to > adjust our entries to a unfamiliar language. It mean we have to limit > our means of expression (we will not be experts on nuances). You who > are native English speaker have all the advantages, would it then be too > hard for you to adjust you language to what is acceptable to us others? > > Anders > > > Den 2020-09-11 kl. 09:31, skrev Benjamin Ikuta: > > > > Please, enlighten me. > > > > > > > > On Sep 10, 2020, at 11:39 PM, Ziko van Dijk <zvand...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Am Fr., 11. Sept. 2020 um 08:07 Uhr schrieb Benjamin Ikuta > >> <benjaminik...@gmail.com>: > >>> Is there some context that makes this much worse than it seems, or do I > have a deeply flawed understanding of civility? > >> Well, are you open to consider the possibility that the latter might > >> theoretically be the case, at least partially? > >> Kind regards > >> Ziko > >> > >> > >> > >>> a.org?subject=unsubscribe> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > https://www.avg.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
