Thanks. I was just expressing my concerns. On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 6:24 PM Abhinav srivastava <abhinav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Ashwin Sir, > > > > It is a matter of one’s personal privacy. Otherwise, I would have shared > the delegate name immediately. This is similar to sharing Bodisattwa’s talk > about 2016 Wikimania where I shared the relevant link on his personal > email. If anyone is not comfortable then why force and take his name. Yes, > 2 lakhs is not the issue but you can see why I had stated so. > > Anyways, I would like to say, in future if I ever need a help from say > Bengali, Punjabi, Oriya community; Bodhisattwa, Satdeep, Subhashish would > be the first people to come and offer their support. There is enough good > in the Indian community and at times it does not get reflected on the > mailing list. 😊 > > Let me tell you, I am working on a GLAM partnership and nobody else but > Satdeep offered me help and support. This happened this Monday itself. > > Discussions and Debates are just a part of the community interactions. As > they say, the democratic process is strengthened more only when you > practice it. By practice only we learn, ‘we learn how to be polite’, ‘how > to maintain friendly space’, ‘how to be kind etc’. Anyways, If I have been > rude, I would like to apologize straight away. > > > > @ Subhashish: Thank You For The Positive Message. I am also happy to learn > about activities in your User Group. > > On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:57 PM Subhashish Panigrahi < > psubhash...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Abhinav, I think it's a valid expectation for a public report from any >> volunteer in the movement when the donation money is spent. So, please >> don't apologize to me. But there are many factors — priorities in life, >> time commitment, need for something, and many more that stops one from >> being available for post-event documentation. >> >> Maybe the following would help explain. Our user group tries to document >> a lot. To put things into a perspective, our recent-most event, the 16th >> anniversary of Odia Wikipedia, has a long and detailed documentation in >> Odia (https://or.wikipedia.org/s/1bia) - thanks to contributors like >> Sangram Keshari Senapati, Bikash Ojha and many others who managed to >> document a lot of valuable portions from the discussions. We have recorded >> about 50 Gb of interviews and sessions just during this event that we now >> have no bandwidth to edit and upload. It will take a few more months for us >> to do that. :) >> >> As a new user group, we have also supported neighboring communities like >> Santali where we interviewed many of the active and new Wikimedians (almost >> 50 Gbs of media again) during a workshop that we helped organize with >> support from A2K. >> >> These are just a couple of examples of what we intend to do and how >> things turn up differently in reality. Trust me, we really want to document >> publicly as much as we can and there are genuine factors that slow many of >> us down. But point noted - there is always a room for improvement. I >> personally assumed that as there is a Etherpad note that Tito and others at >> A2K had created during the two-day meeting, sharing that with the community >> was enough. We indeed had a discussion and Sailesh who works at A2K and >> other colleagues at our user group can share more about the same. >> >> Subhashish >> >> >> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:20 PM Abhinav srivastava <abhinav...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Hello Netha, >>> >>> I had no idea about you neither I am directing at you. This is for other >>> Wikimedias residing in India. >>> >>> Sorry for the inconveniences. >>> >>> Abhinav >>> >>> On Fri 10 Aug, 2018, 5:18 PM Netha Hussain, <nethahuss...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> My response to Abhinav's question, just to clarify about my attendance >>>> at WMCON 18 : >>>> >>>> 2.) I am not sure if all those selected by WMF to participate in >>>> the Wikimedia Conference 2018 were invited. Are you sure every one of them >>>> was invited? I wish to hear. >>>> >>>> I am an Indian Wikimedian and I was selected by the WMF to participate >>>> in Wikimedia Conference 2018. I attended in my capacity as a volunteer and >>>> delivered the Diversity statement and led the diversity discussion >>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2018/Documentation/Movement_Strategy_track/Day_2> >>>> there. I was not informed about this Bangalore conference conducted by the >>>> CIS, and I do not expect to be invited because I live in a different >>>> country, and flying me to India would have been very expensive. >>>> Additionally, my role in WMCON 2018 was to talk specifically about >>>> Diversity, which is not exclusively an India-related topic. I did not >>>> represent any affiliate from India, either. >>>> >>>> The complete list of participants who attended WMCON 18 can be found >>>> here >>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2018/Participants%27_List> >>>> . >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> Netha >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, 10 Aug 2018 at 13:28, Abhinav srivastava <abhinav...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello Tanveer and Subhashish, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thank You, Tanveer for acknowledging, responding, apologizing and most >>>>> importantly assuring on transparency. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I still have a few concerns and I wish to write back. I would >>>>> appreciate if I can hear back. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 1.) Your proposal also mentions on inviting Experienced Indian >>>>> Wikimedians. While, as per your response I do not find any Wikimedian >>>>> attending in this category. I would like to record a suggestion. Bengaluru >>>>> is one of the highly populated cities and also comprising a high number of >>>>> migrant populations. In the upcoming events, you can invite Experience >>>>> Wikimedians from other languages groups which still do not have a User >>>>> Group and are based in Bengaluru. They may not be attending the Wikimedia >>>>> Conference in Berlin, they may not be even from your focused languages. >>>>> The >>>>> idea is very similar to the statement put forward by your organization and >>>>> Wikimedia India during the Wiki Conference India, “While some communities >>>>> have dynamic leaders and enough community level activity…….this cannot be >>>>> said for all communities.” >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2.) I am not sure if all those selected by WMF to participate in >>>>> the Wikimedia Conference 2018 were invited. Are you sure every one of them >>>>> was invited? I wish to hear. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 3.) Once you complete the Meta page, I would request you to please >>>>> share on this thread. I would encourage you and your team to document as >>>>> much as you can about your activities on Meta. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 4.) It is already to my understanding that the absence of your >>>>> communication manager has led to defaults in your newsletter. I would like >>>>> to re-iterate as documented on the other mail thread, Wikimedia >>>>> Communities >>>>> are voluntary driven, some staff should devote time and keep sharing. This >>>>> is just a suggestion. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> @ Subhashish: Sorry to cross-post a bit from the other thread, I >>>>> happened to miss your last message since another message popped in within >>>>> 10 minutes and I couldn’t distinguish. I believe putting comments about >>>>> your personal experiences at Wikimedia Movements wasn’t the best sportive >>>>> thing one could do. Since those were put on a public thread, so, on a >>>>> public thread, I would like to *apologize*. I still may remain >>>>> unconvinced on not having bandwidth, reports and other issues, but, Yes, I >>>>> shouldn’t have brought your personal story. >>>>> >>>>> Also, I advise Odia User Group to be more active in documenting about >>>>> such works on their Meta page and Village Pump. Our communities are too >>>>> big >>>>> in nature, they often get sorted into two haves – one who dedicate more >>>>> time to the movement and remain known faces amongst each other, two- who >>>>> edit but devote less time to activities but they also put their >>>>> contributions. There are numerous such silent editors in every community. >>>>> Please take this only to be a suggestion, no negative remarks here. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> @Satdeep : I was expecting to hear from you. As Tanveer, points out on >>>>> having spent roughly Rs 2 lakhs, this is amount is much more than that >>>>> spent on to endorse a scholarship to Wikimania. But that’s not my >>>>> question, I think we should refrain from that on this thread. You were a >>>>> part of the conference were no heeds to transparency and reporting was >>>>> made >>>>> (even the CIS-A2K staff accepts this). Secondly, you hold a chair in >>>>> AffCom >>>>> and also a WMF staff (yes part-time). I am of the opinion that neutrality >>>>> has somewhere been disturbed at your end. A personal freindly suggestion. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Abhinav >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 3:11 PM Subhashish Panigrahi < >>>>> psubhash...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks Tanveer for this frank clarification. >>>>>> >>>>>> @Abhinav srivastava <abhinav...@gmail.com>, I didn't check earlier >>>>>> that there is a point concerning me. So just a small clarification - my >>>>>> point was not to show how A2K organized the event in a non-transparent >>>>>> way >>>>>> but to share the fact that I was a participant and did not know very well >>>>>> what went behind organizing the event. Also, I participated in my >>>>>> capacity >>>>>> of a rep of Odia Wikimedians User Group who happened to live in Bangalore >>>>>> (so it was logistically cheaper even though we didn't go to WMCON this >>>>>> year). For the record, Tanveer did share with me about this factor and >>>>>> the >>>>>> second factor — that our UG will be eligible next year to send a rep — >>>>>> for >>>>>> inviting me. My participation was not in the capacity of a former >>>>>> employee >>>>>> of CIS. :) >>>>>> >>>>>> Subhashish >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:59 PM Tanveer Hasan < >>>>>> hasanrememb...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Abhinav, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please find our responses below: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ==Conference== >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (a) Did CIS-A2K organize a conference/meetup in Bengaluru this >>>>>>> summer?: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes, we organised a WMCON India 2018 as per our proposal [1] that >>>>>>> was submitted to the FDC in March 2017. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (b) How were the delegates selected and which communities were >>>>>>> invited? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The delegates were not selected by CIS. Participants >>>>>>> invited/selected by WMF to participate in WMCON 2018 [2] in Berlin were >>>>>>> invited to this meeting. User Group representatives who will be >>>>>>> participating in WMCON 2019 (residing in Bangalore) were invited to >>>>>>> participate as well. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (c) For all those communities who were invited (based on your >>>>>>> response to part b) was an official notification sent via village pump, >>>>>>> mailing list, reaching out to User Group representatives? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As the participants were already selected by another affiliate of >>>>>>> WMF, we did not want to reinvent the process and hence sent them >>>>>>> personal >>>>>>> emails as invite to this conference. We apologise for not sending out >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> event agenda and details about the event on mailing list and village >>>>>>> pump >>>>>>> of all the Indic communities. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (d) Is there a legitimate reason to be non-transparent in the >>>>>>> process? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Our intention was not to be ‘non transparent’, the participant list >>>>>>> was put up by WMDE Conference organising team and we invited only those >>>>>>> people whose name featured in the official participant list. Sunil >>>>>>> Abraham, >>>>>>> Executive Director, CIS and Ananth Subray, Program Associate, A2K, >>>>>>> Subhashish Panigrahi, representing Odia User group and Dr. U.B. >>>>>>> Pavanaja, >>>>>>> representing Karavali Wikimedians User Group were the only participants >>>>>>> who >>>>>>> were present whose name was not on the Participants list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (e) When a former CIS-A2K staff informed you about not >>>>>>> maintaining transparency why was still no heed paid to it (if part d of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> question is NO)? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would like to reiterate that our intention was not to be >>>>>>> ‘non-transparent’. A2K team apologises for not sending out adequate >>>>>>> information to communities and requisite channels of communication. We >>>>>>> will >>>>>>> strive to improve our communication with the community for all of our >>>>>>> events. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (f) Can reports, learning patterns etc be shared with the >>>>>>> community? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There is a meta page that had been created but has not been >>>>>>> completed. We will priorotise the reporting of this event and revert >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> relevant updates. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (g) How much funds were involved? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We used an approximate amount of INR.2 lakh for this event. Major >>>>>>> expenses were incurred in arranging transport and hospitality. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (h) What were the responsibilities of different CIS-A2K staff >>>>>>> during the workshop? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Four members of the CIS-A2K team participated in the meeting. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mr. Sunil Abraham, Executive Director was the chief facilitator on >>>>>>> Day 1. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tanveer Hasan and Tito Dutta were organisers and co-facilitators for >>>>>>> the conversations for both days. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ananth Subray attended the event to coordinate logistics and >>>>>>> reimbursements. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ==Reports== >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (a) What has been stopping CIS-A2K to share their monthly >>>>>>> reports on the mailing list and their Report Section of Wikimedia Meta? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We have defaulted on our newsletter because of the exit of our >>>>>>> communications officer. All the reports are updated here [3]. We will >>>>>>> also >>>>>>> update reports here [4] at the earliest. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (b) Can we hear about the reports, shortly? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We will do our best to update reports by the end of this month. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [1]. >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/CIS-A2K/Work_plan_July_2017_-_June_2018/Skill_Building_Initiatives#Wikimedia_India_conference_2018 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [2]. >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2018/Participants%27_List >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [3]. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Reports >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [4]. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/CIS-A2K/Reports >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ಭಾನು, ಆಗ 5, 2018 ರಂದು 07:22 ಪೂರ್ವಾಹ್ನ ಸಮಯಕ್ಕೆ ರಂದು Abhinav >>>>>>> srivastava <abhinav...@gmail.com> ಅವರು ಬರೆದಿದ್ದಾರೆ: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank You Tito for your mail. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I would request you to address the issues within 10 days from now. >>>>>>>> This is just a request. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Also, one of your colleagues and also my friend informed me that he >>>>>>>> wanted to reply but his e-mail is being moderated or blacklisted. I >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> taken this issue with the mailing list admins and the admins have >>>>>>>> looked >>>>>>>> into the issue clarifying the said collegeue wasn’t moderated or >>>>>>>> blacklisted. In case, any issue still arises, please ping me and I >>>>>>>> will do >>>>>>>> my best to settle this. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank You for writing back. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Abhinav >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sunday, August 5, 2018, Tito Dutta <trulyt...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello Abhinav, >>>>>>>>> On behalf of the team, I confirm that we have received your >>>>>>>>> questions. Thanks for these questions. >>>>>>>>> We have a hectic schedule right now because of few things such as >>>>>>>>> CIS (the main institution's) strategy meet, staff transition, grant >>>>>>>>> report, >>>>>>>>> and some other works. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Transparency and accountability are very important topics. If >>>>>>>>> things are not clear for a couple of events, we must work on it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Some other member or I'll get back with answers in a few days. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> (I am cc-ing Sunil Abraham, ED, of the institution, in this email) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>> Tito Dutta >>>>>>>>> Note: If I don't reply to your email in 2 days, please feel free >>>>>>>>> to remind me over email or phone call. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 at 13:47, Abhinav srivastava < >>>>>>>>> abhinav...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dear Friends From CIS-A2K, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I am bringing up a discussion based on few of the concerns >>>>>>>>>> expressed on the other mail thread. I would like to acknowledge on >>>>>>>>>> record, >>>>>>>>>> the past few years CIS-A2K has reached out to communities (besides >>>>>>>>>> Focussed >>>>>>>>>> Language Area) much more effectively. I may be the first person to >>>>>>>>>> say this >>>>>>>>>> publicly but I am sure many more would echo my views here. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Now what concerns me and something CIS-A2K already knows, when >>>>>>>>>> the community has started acknowledging your work much more, CIS-A2K >>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>> been acting as the necessary intervention in times of crisis why >>>>>>>>>> transparency is being not paid its due. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I list some of my questions which everyone is already aware of >>>>>>>>>> and would request a reply. I would request you to not break the >>>>>>>>>> bullet and >>>>>>>>>> reply each of them separately. Of course! If you are comfortable. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ==Conference== >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> (a) Did CIS-A2K organize a conference/meetup in Bengaluru >>>>>>>>>> this summer? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> (b) How were the delegates selected and which communities were >>>>>>>>>> invited? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> (c) For all those communities who were invited (based on your >>>>>>>>>> response to part b) was an official notification sent via village >>>>>>>>>> pump, >>>>>>>>>> mailing list, reaching out to User Group representatives? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> (d) Is there a legitimate reason to be non-transparent in the >>>>>>>>>> process? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> (e) When a former CIS-A2K staff informed you about not >>>>>>>>>> maintaining transparency why was still no heed paid to it (if part d >>>>>>>>>> of the >>>>>>>>>> question is NO)? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> (f) Can reports, learning patterns etc be shared with the >>>>>>>>>> community? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> (g) How much funds were involved? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> (h) What were the responsibilities of different CIS-A2K staff >>>>>>>>>> during the workshop? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ==Reports== >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> (a) What has been stopping CIS-A2K to share their monthly >>>>>>>>>> reports on the mailing list and their Report Section of Wikimedia >>>>>>>>>> Meta? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> (b) Can we hear about the reports, shortly? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> @Satdeep: I could not find any Meta page but I do find a page >>>>>>>>>> which is put under-construction and this mentions you. Were you a >>>>>>>>>> part of >>>>>>>>>> this? If Yes, I am not able to understand, the entire argument you >>>>>>>>>> had >>>>>>>>>> posted yesterday about reporting guidelines and transparency. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Only If, You Were A Party to This. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To Everyone, I understand I may be playing the devil’s role here. >>>>>>>>>> Some of my close aides have already advised me to stay back since I >>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>> damaging my personal reputation. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> My argument is simple if my personal image promotes inclusiveness >>>>>>>>>> and transparency. I will be happy to remain a soldier fighting. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Abhinav >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >>>>>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >>>>>>>> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >>>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >>>>>>> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >>>>> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Netha Hussain >>>> Institute of Neuroscience and Physiology >>>> University of Gothenburg, Sweden >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >>>> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >>> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimediaindia-l mailing list > Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >
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