Op 14 apr. 2012 om 00:01 heeft Strainu <strain...@gmail.com> het volgende geschreven:
> Re-adding the list, as this is of public interest. Wow. It's generally considered to be pretty rude to just publish a private reply to a public list. I'm assuming good faith, but please ask next time, would you? > În data de 13 aprilie 2012, 19:42, Niklas Laxström > <niklas.laxst...@gmail.com> a scris: >> I do consider users (at least one, me!). > > Glad to hear that, but you're not the main user of either > translatewiki or mediawiki in general. What's the relevance here, or do you feel like Niklas needs an old fashioned and proper bashing? >> If we must initiate >> discussion (if there even is a community) and wait for consensus (that >> might never happen) for every change we do, we will never get anything >> done. > > That's plain wrong, and Wikipedia is here to prove it :) Many user > scripts were developed after consultation with the community. They're > working great and do what users expect them to do, not what the > developers want them to do. I do agree that developement would be much > slower, though. Hyperbole is the use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device or figure of speech. >> >> Like I mentioned in the email, I proposed that we notify affected >> Wikpedias *before* the changes are deployed [1] and executed that >> together with Gerard. They were given right to veto any change they >> didn't like or wanted to discuss. And some of them did use that >> possibility. > > Search for "translation" on the Romanian village pump: > https://ro.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AC%C4%83utare&profile=advanced&search=Translation+prefix%3AWikipedia%3ACafenea&fulltext=Search&ns0=1&ns4=1&ns10=1&redirs=1&profile=advanced > > The ro.wp embassy: > https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discu%C8%9Bie_Wikipedia:Ambasad%C4%83 > > I can see no such notification. No message from you, and only one from > Gerard, when the translation team was founded. If you chose only some > Wikipedias, then let me tell you this is even worse than no > notification at all. The thing is - the wiki environment is by > definition decentralized and hard to follow for small communities. If > you choose to notify only big wikis or the wikis that already receive > support from the WMF (e.g. Arabic, Indic languages), you're basically > having no effect at all. http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/107309 is not about Romanian, so there's no reason for such a message at this point in time. Also see http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2012-February/058189.html. > As to solutions, I have proposed at Wikimania 2010 to the person that > was coordinating the Translation hub from meta to put up some > automated notification system when a new translation request appears. > This hasn't happened and translations in most languages are still > happening by chance, as different users go by the translation hub. It's being worked on. Expect something soon. > I suggest you do the same, at least for Special:AdvanceTranslation > strings. Some time before a scheduled deployment (ideally, 7 days, but > at least 72 hours), notify _all_ the village pumps and some users > (either all the users that translated the advanced strings, or all the > users that sign-up on some dedicated page) of the deployment. This > way, you don't have to wait for the consensus, but you're giving > communities an opportunity to reach it. Nah. These changes are usually do rare that we'll just approach communities as we go along. It seems that MediaWiki core namespace changes are now the most heavily QA-ed and agreed upon changes in all of MediaWiki. > The sign-up system might seem complicated, but it works - we use it on > ro.wp for unblocking requests and for responses to warnings: we're > handling all unblocking requests in a matter of minutes, vs. days > before the bot warnings. See two paragraphs up. You can also consider signing up to translators-l for now. See https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:LanguageStats for current translation requests. > Another way to go is to have regular deployments as a rule. Right now, > you guys are something like "oh, we'll do it about every 3-4 months, > if the review queue is not too big and if something goes wrong we'll > push it for 2 more weeks". Having the deployment schedule a year in > advance, including the features you're targeting on each deployment, > and enforcing a maximum delay of 1 week used only for deployment bugs > and nothing else would greatly enhance predictability and give > translators a target to aim for. You are making many assumptions here. Not sure about the scope -- "you guys" is pretty generic--, but I'm pretty certain that there are a few variables (understatement) you failed to take into account that prove this theory as implausible. > P.S. My "accusation" was actually an observation based on my past > interactions with you on this list and on bugzilla. I don't mean any > disrespect, but I stand by it. Which accusation was that? Cheers! Siebrand _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
