În data de 14 aprilie 2012, 01:59, Siebrand Mazeland <s.mazel...@xs4all.nl> a scris: > Op 14 apr. 2012 om 00:01 heeft Strainu <strain...@gmail.com> het volgende > geschreven: > >> Re-adding the list, as this is of public interest. > > Wow. It's generally considered to be pretty rude to just publish a private > reply to a public list. I'm assuming good faith, but please ask next time, > would you?
Actually, you shouldn't AGF. I was aware that this is considered rude, but I did it anyway. There was no reason for that email to be private. If I am to be the bad guy for something to change, so be it. I will live with that. >> În data de 13 aprilie 2012, 19:42, Niklas Laxström >> <niklas.laxst...@gmail.com> a scris: >>> I do consider users (at least one, me!). >> >> Glad to hear that, but you're not the main user of either >> translatewiki or mediawiki in general. > > What's the relevance here, or do you feel like Niklas needs an old fashioned > and proper bashing? I feel Niklas needs to be less ego-centric. I was talking about "the main users of the software" and he responded that he thinks about himself. Or was that also a hyperbole? This also applies to many others from the development team, as a search in the wikitech-l archives will show. > Hyperbole is the use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device or figure of > speech. That's one hell of an exaggeration, but be it your way. > >>> >>> Like I mentioned in the email, I proposed that we notify affected >>> Wikpedias *before* the changes are deployed [1] and executed that >>> together with Gerard. They were given right to veto any change they >>> didn't like or wanted to discuss. And some of them did use that >>> possibility. >> >> Search for "translation" on the Romanian village pump: >> https://ro.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AC%C4%83utare&profile=advanced&search=Translation+prefix%3AWikipedia%3ACafenea&fulltext=Search&ns0=1&ns4=1&ns10=1&redirs=1&profile=advanced >> >> The ro.wp embassy: >> https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discu%C8%9Bie_Wikipedia:Ambasad%C4%83 >> >> I can see no such notification. No message from you, and only one from >> Gerard, when the translation team was founded. If you chose only some >> Wikipedias, then let me tell you this is even worse than no >> notification at all. The thing is - the wiki environment is by >> definition decentralized and hard to follow for small communities. If >> you choose to notify only big wikis or the wikis that already receive >> support from the WMF (e.g. Arabic, Indic languages), you're basically >> having no effect at all. > > http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/107309 is not about > Romanian, so there's no reason for such a message at this point in time. Also > see http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2012-February/058189.html. True. My apologies here. But still, so far I haven't seen a single message from the i18n team. > >> As to solutions, I have proposed at Wikimania 2010 to the person that >> was coordinating the Translation hub from meta to put up some >> automated notification system when a new translation request appears. >> This hasn't happened and translations in most languages are still >> happening by chance, as different users go by the translation hub. > > It's being worked on. Expect something soon. Worked on? I know first hand that such a notification system does not take more than a man-day to crate with a minimal set of features. Add-ons can be added iteratively later. So "something soon" is "much too late" from my POV. You don't need to have it deliver french fries to the communities from the first version. :) > >> I suggest you do the same, at least for Special:AdvanceTranslation >> strings. Some time before a scheduled deployment (ideally, 7 days, but >> at least 72 hours), notify _all_ the village pumps and some users >> (either all the users that translated the advanced strings, or all the >> users that sign-up on some dedicated page) of the deployment. This >> way, you don't have to wait for the consensus, but you're giving >> communities an opportunity to reach it. > > Nah. These changes are usually do rare that we'll just approach communities > as we go along. It seems that MediaWiki core namespace changes are now the > most heavily QA-ed and agreed upon changes in all of MediaWiki. Have you considered malicious, subtle changes (e.g. change of a diacritic just minutes before the deployment)? Are there checks in pace to prevent them? Having the community aware ahead of time would increase the number of interested eyes. > >> Another way to go is to have regular deployments as a rule. Right now, >> you guys are something like "oh, we'll do it about every 3-4 months, >> if the review queue is not too big and if something goes wrong we'll >> push it for 2 more weeks". Having the deployment schedule a year in >> advance, including the features you're targeting on each deployment, >> and enforcing a maximum delay of 1 week used only for deployment bugs >> and nothing else would greatly enhance predictability and give >> translators a target to aim for. > > You are making many assumptions here. Not sure about the scope -- "you guys" > is pretty generic--, but I'm pretty certain that there are a few variables > (understatement) you failed to take into account that prove this theory as > implausible. "You guys" means MediaWiki developers, both paid and volunteers. I'm talking about a time-based release train here. I would say that MediaWiki already uses this system, but it's just very, very slack. Of course there are many variables that need to be taken into account, but my understanding is there is somebody responsible for the deployments. This person should handle those variables so *something* (which is as close as possible to the original plan) is deployed as close as possible to the announced moment. Strainu _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
