Hi, thanks for your response! First of all, I am not the guy who complained regarding the fact wikis are not accepted, I am just proposing another idea, but here are answers:
On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 10:03 AM, Sébastien Santoro <dereck...@espace-win.org> wrote: > Good morning, > > On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 9:35 AM, Petr Bena <benap...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi, >> >> One developer recently complained about some freenode policies, >> specifically that wiki projects (wikipedia etc has some kind of >> exception) are no longer allowed to be hosted on freenode network, >> which is supposed to host only opensource projects. >> It's fact that as >> the wikimedia project is becoming more large the freenode is getting >> less and less suitable. > You have the right to say anything, you've the duty to prove it. > > Could you support your three claims: > (i) only open source projects are allowed on Freenode > (ii) Wikimedia has an exception > (iii) Freenode can't scale with Wikimedia projects growth > 1: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC/Hosts#See_also there is a reference 2: Wikipedia channels are allowed, the mere fact that others are not makes it an exception 3: I never said that > According http://freenode.net/policy.shtml, are accepted: > "Non-Software-Related Peer-Directed Project. Per the PDPC charter, > channels which serve projects combining open, informal participation > and broadly-licensed, widely-disseminated creative output are > considered to be on-topic. If you believe your non-software project > may meet the criteria for a non-software peer-directed project, please > consult a staffer or email support at freenode dot net. " > >> (...) >> I would like to propose another idea, and that is, instead of leaving >> freenode, to improve the relations with the freenode staff and >> eventually ask them to change some of the restrictions to fit better >> to our needs > Please provide us a list of issues we currently have and the solutions. > > I fear you're doing a bold move made under false assumptions. > Our relations with the Freenode staff seems to be rather good and the > current statu quo works well. > I already provided this list, just read either the https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC/Hosts#See_also or the previous e-mail >> On other hand we could offer them various services in >> return, for example the wikimedia foundation has made few donations to >> freenode in past. If we consider the amount of hardware resources we >> have, it shouldn't be problem to offer freenode for example a >> dedicated or virtual server running on our cluster, which could host >> one or more of their ircd servers (our technical / operation community >> is far larger than freenode's so there should be absolutely no problem >> setting this up and keeping it maintained). > Do you have any idea how much maintenance requires an IRC server? > Yes, I am an irc operator on one > Do you have any idea of the impact (DDoS flood for example) an IRC > server have to a network? > Yes > Do you have any idea of the skills, the time, the social contacts and > the energy required to maintain an IRC server? > Yes > Do you know how many corporates, universities linked to networks like > UnderNet, EFnet, IRCNet and Dalnet decided to not fight anymore those > battles and canceled their support? > No, neither I understand why you ask that > I know we're on Freenode, a quieter network, but still... these are > experiences to take in account to avoid to find problems. > >> of long term support to freenode network in return for their services >> they offer to wikimedia project and it could eventually improve the >> relations with freenode so they would allow to improve some of their >> policies, specifically: >> >> - The wiki-projects (which are often related to mediawiki software or >> developers, even some other companies / projects are affiliated with >> MW development) should be allowed to be hosted on freenode, so that >> the community of these projects shouldn't find it so hard to reach the >> technical support of mediawiki (right now they would have to be on >> multiple networks given that #mediawiki is hosted on freenode, but >> wiki projects in general are not allowed to be hosted there) > Please give us two samples of wiki projects who wanted to be on > Freenode but couldn't. > Again, I am not the guy complaining about this, I just come with another idea than proposed on wiki page, ask the guy who had troubles registering their project on freenode. > Please back your claim with prove people from any wiki would want: > (i) to be on IRC > (ii) to have a regular channel > (iii) to have this regular channel on the Freenode network > (iv) don't already have it / be denied / etc. > >> - There is a limit defined by freenode to have maximal number of 4 >> Group contacts, who are people dealing with cloaks and various staff >> related issues. The wikimedia project currently have 4 Group contacts, >> so it's quite impossible to enlarge this team. Right now it takes some >> time for cloak requests to be processed and in future this number of >> people could not be sufficient. Freenode should make it possible for >> large projects like wikimedia to have some better options. > What the IRC Group think about that? > >> - Technical channels have lot of services like nagios bots, these bots >> are getting often killed for flooding, because they need to send a lot >> of text in short time, it should be possible to define exceptions for >> these services to allow sending bigger amount of data in channels > They're automatically killed or by ircops? > They are killed by limits (ircd) > If it's the first, we should configure them correctly, as it's an issue. > > For example, look the eggdrop source code.There are 3 messages queues, > one "quick" processing virtually immediately, the "serv" as a regular > rate and the "help" which is throttled to avoid flood. Those settings > work since 1996. We could go read them, test them and recommend them > as best practices. > I already proposed this once, response by people who operate these bots was: "there should be possibility to give some exception to these." On other hand, the network services (u:lines) do have this exception. I don't think anyone would like to wait for chanserv 40 seconds to print its help. Just as when something went wrong on production there is a little point in waiting 2 minutes for nagios to print the messages. > -- > Sébastien Santoro aka Dereckson > http://www.dereckson.be/ > > _______________________________________________ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l Your e-mail is definitely partially correct, but keep in mind that I am proposing wikimedia operation to offer a long term donation to freenode in form of server hosting, and I still don't see a simple reason why not to do that. _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
