It's called roaming. It happens with everyone but Nextel.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering
> Marlon,
>
> Your comment that I was "short sighted" because I don't turn potential
> customers over to my competition really hit a nerve. Sure we have made
> some mistakes along the way, but being called short sighted because I
> don't share networks and customers with competition is asinine.
>
> You talk about the cell companies and the values they get when they sell,
> etc. but I can tell you that the cell companies aren't turning customers
> over to each other people they may have poor coverage in an area. :)
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>> Travis, I think you've misunderstood me.
>>
>> I'm not saying you don't have a good company. Clearly you do. I also
>> think you're a bright guy.
>>
>> There are likely two reasons for the size difference in out companies.
>> The biggest would be market size. My whole COUNTY has 10,000 people in
>> it. Probably less than that by now. The next county over probably has
>> less than 50,000. I have DSL, cable, FTTH (basically GIVEN away by a
>> PUD), and several other wisps as competition on this very rural area.
>>
>> I started my business as a copier sales and service company in '95 with
>> no inventory, no customers, a few tools an $3000 in the bank. It's fair
>> to say that I didn't exactly have an easy time of it when starting out.
>> I started the ISP in '97, not cause I thought it a good business, but
>> because no one else would do it here. In '98 I started the homebrew DSL
>> thing, and in '99 I started the wireless.
>>
>> In 2001 when we switched from mostly office equipment work to only
>> internet, we had a TON of debt. An ex service manager had spent a year
>> setting up his own company and when he left me I lost 50%(!!!) of my
>> revenue in 1 month. I'd just moved into a brand new big building etc.
>> Had more space and a LOT more of a lease payment than I needed due to the
>> reduced business.
>>
>> Two... We've grown much slower than some, but I'm very much a man of my
>> word. I've been careful NOT to put myself in a position of possible
>> bankruptsy etc. We've been late sometimes but other than the lease on
>> that building, I've never walked away from a single bill. Even when many
>> I know have filed bankruptsy in far easier situations. Maybe that makes
>> me a fool, but I'm a fool you know you can do honest business with.
>>
>> 3000 subs sounds great, till you think about companies with 30,000 or
>> 300,000 subs. THAT's where *I* want to be. Actually, I want that
>> $10,000,000 cash payment for my company. grin. Look again, at the
>> original OWNERS of all of those cell phone companies that used to exist.
>> Or the ones that had the cable companies etc. Why were those sales so
>> valuable? I believe because of cooperation and standardization. Make it
>> as cheap and easy to take over your operations as it can be.
>>
>> BTW, 1% per year in growth? Plus a 10% drop in costs? That's nice. Our
>> gross sales have increased by 15 to 16% per year for the last three
>> years. We're still not advertising either. And this year, so far, we're
>> running 96% ahead of last years growth. I may be in a very small market,
>> but I'm a damned good operator!
>>
>> laters,
>> marlon
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
>> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 9:19 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering
>>
>>
>>> Well, I seem to be holding my own ground pretty well... and I DON'T turn
>>> customers over to my competition... over 65 towers in operation, over
>>> 3,000 wireless subs, hundreds of DSL subs, almost 50 fiber subs (banks,
>>> hospitals, insurance, etc.)... and NO outside investors, stock holders,
>>> or any long-term debt whatsoever. :)
>>>
>>> (OT: Our annual gross revenue has been within 1% of the previous year
>>> for the past 4 years. However, I have managed to decrease our expenses
>>> by 10% every year. While this doesn't seem like a lot, realize we are a
>>> multi-million dollar company. There is EASY money to be made by just
>>> cutting expenses. Things like shopping around for better CC rates,
>>> better insurance rates, cheaper bandwidth, etc.)
>>>
>>> Also, if you leased your equipment, you could put the new tower up for
>>> less than $200 per month for EVERYTHING. ;)
>>>
>>> <rant>
>>> Call it what you will Marlon, but I believe you started your wireless
>>> operation around 1997 (going off your website). In 1997 we started our
>>> wireless service as well. Today we have over 3,000 connected wireless
>>> subs and are growing at over 100 per month. We have been profitable
>>> since our first year in business. This will be _another_ record breaking
>>> year for us. We have a backbone uptime of 99.99% over the last 2 years
>>> (including scheduled maintenance). Our wireless subs see a 99.9% uptime
>>> (including maintenance, interferance issues, blown AP's, etc). We
>>> deliver over 150Mbps of internet traffic during business hours using
>>> three diverse providers (DS3 via Qwest fiber, OC3 via seperate Qwest
>>> fiber, Level3 via fastethernet via seperate fiber via seperate NOC). We
>>> provide service to 8 entire school districts (out of a possible 10 in
>>> our entire 25,000 square mile coverage area).
>>> </rant>
>>>
>>> So, if I'm short sighted and you are not, why is my company 10x the size
>>> and making 10x the profit when both of us started at the same time?
>>>
>>> Travis
>>> Microserv
>>>
>>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 8:16 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Why wouldn't you just put up your own AP's and service the same area
>>>>> rather than give that customer away to the competition?
>>>>
>>>> Spectrum congestion.
>>>>
>>>> Cashflow
>>>>
>>>> Speed.
>>>>
>>>> Expanded coverage, very quickly, for no money.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I would spend $5k and put up my own tower before I turn a "potential"
>>>>> customer away to the competition. I've done it many times over the
>>>>> years and it has always paid off. Once one person is connected, they
>>>>> tell their neighbors about it. Pretty soon an AP that was put up for a
>>>>> single customer has 10 or 20 customers on it.
>>>>
>>>> Um, the competitors ALREADY have networks in place!!!!!
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Doesn't seem to make business sense to me. Plus when they need tech
>>>>> support, how do you troubleshoot the competitors AP's? How do you do
>>>>> RF link tests and packet loss tests at 10:00PM when the customer is on
>>>>> the phone?
>>>>
>>>> I call the competitor on his cell phone. Just like he does with me.
>>>>
>>>> Your attidude, while pretty typical, is very short sighted. The more
>>>> we work together to keep the airways clean and maximize the
>>>> investments, the better all of our networks run and the faster we can
>>>> grow.
>>>>
>>>> It's that silly ol' "Together we stand" thing.
>>>>
>>>> I was watching a group of kids play Red Rover the other day. I had to
>>>> wonder how that game would turn out if the kids all tried to stand
>>>> there and hold their OWN ground instead of working as a team.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Travis
>>>>> Microserv
>>>>>
>>>>> Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Rogato"
>>>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 6:42 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
>>>>>>>> Two of my competitors just sat down for lunch and worked out a
>>>>>>>> network sharing agreement. It's a handshake deal at this point
>>>>>>>> though.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Basically we carved up a hilltop laying out coverage zones for each
>>>>>>>> of us, and we set a price for using each other's ap's.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Marlon
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey I think thats a good thing you've done there Marlon, getting
>>>>>>> along and even doing business with your competitors.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah. It's something that the three of us have already been doing
>>>>>> for a couple of years. We sell on each other's ap's at the same
>>>>>> price. The only catch is that each of us has to live under the bw,
>>>>>> and bit cap rules of the other guys network vs. our own. But that
>>>>>> seems perfectly fair to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We also handle all tech support for the cusotmer. The customer
>>>>>> should NEVER contact the other isp. We have however, shown up
>>>>>> together at problematic customers and worked jointly to fix any
>>>>>> issues.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But where do you think the line would be drawn in respect to anti
>>>>>>> competitive practices?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not sure. We've not had that come up yet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Did you have a specific situation in mind?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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