Is that the best you can come up with Lonnie? Hit and run? I think you owe everyone that has ever bought a StarOS license an explanation as well as an explanation for the hard time you have hammered WISPA leadership with in dealing with CALEA. I have yet to figure that angle out, but I feel assured something will raise its head in the near future.
That's not a very professional attitude even if I were out of line. Inquiring minds wonder where they stand in getting FCC legal with their StarOS, WAR boards and Wrap combo's. No News, I guess, is bad news in this case. GL, Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC. Rayville, La. www.inetsouth.com www.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief) www.mac-tel.us (VoIP sales) 318.728.8600 318.728.9600 318.303.4182 > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Lonnie Nunweiler > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 7:36 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] What is WISPA? MORE THAN YOU! > > I guess I'll unsubscribe as well. Good bye. > > Lonnie > > On 5/17/07, Mac Dearman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > All right - here it is - I am done and this is all I will say! > > > > Lonnie - how are you with all your resources helping the CALEA effort? > Come > > to think about it - how are you helping with getting your StarOS and > > hardware FCC certified for the USA WISP? You are good to point a finger > here > > today, but you aren't any help in even supporting those that have > supported > > you for years! There are many B I G wireless operators that praise you > and > > you're OS and I have yet to hear how you are going to assist getting > these > > businesses legal and yet you want to pound WISPA board for Mark K's > multi > > thousand comments on list that was absolutely driving the majority > insane? I > > didn't ever say he didn't have a point - - but to make that point 77 > times a > > day is a bit much - wouldn't you say? I have to admit I complained to > the > > board, but they were quick to point out that he has a right to his > opinion > > much to my chagrin. > > > > Lets get down the nitty gritty - what are you doing to assist us in our > > problem of CALEA? You won't even pony up the $1000.00 (just like Mark > K.'s > > membership dues) to be a member of WISPA, but you will bitch and moan > and > > groan about what the board members (who did pay)have to say as well the > > paid members opinions. You haven't even bothered to assist the GOB's or > the > > not so GOB's who run your OS, (built their entire network off StarOS) > get > > legal. I think (personally) if your gear ain't FCC certified - you ought > not > > to be allowed to sale it in the USA. I will take it a step further than > that > > - - - - no I won't as it includes a horse, dragging, nakedness and a > town > > full of people to witness!! > > > > I guess I will self impose a banishment now - how many days Harnish? > > > > Mac Dearman > > Maximum Access, LLC. > > Rayville, La. > > www.inetsouth.com > > www.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief) > > www.mac-tel.us (VoIP sales) > > 318.728.8600 > > 318.728.9600 > > 318.303.4182 > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On > > > Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 > > > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 4:47 PM > > > To: WISPA General List > > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] What is WISPA? was Promotion of services on-list > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Lonnie Nunweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> > > > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 12:56 PM > > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] What is WISPA? was Promotion of services on-list > > > > > > > > > >I am not saying that CALEA is not real and I actually agree that is > > > > required, BUT, did the group have to agree with the rushed timing > and > > > > especially agree to meet a standard that was not even defined? > > > > > > Within the law, it's up to us to define the standard. > > > > > > We met with the "customer" that can give us safe harbor status if they > > > like > > > our solution. We also took the time and money needed to make sure > that we > > > could get the RIGHT answers to as many questions as we could. > > > > > > > > > > > They could have argued for some prior consultation to make sure the > > > > requirements were not a hardship for their membership. > > > > > > And how would anyone out here know what we did in that regard? For > the > > > reccord, *I* talked to the FBI about CALEA and it's impact on our > industry > > > segment. *THEY* knew that there would be problems with the > independant > > > operators but didn't know who to talk to and hadn't yet taken the time > to > > > find out. > > > > > > We're building a standard so that compliance won't create a hardship > for > > > our > > > industry. > > > > > > > They owed that > > > > duty to the members. > > > > > > We fullfilled that "duty" as you call it. We did tell them that > CALEA, as > > > things stand, is a disaster for our industry. They know and > understand. > > > That's one of the reasons that they are working so closely with us to > > > build > > > a more affordable/lower impact solution for those that need it. > > > > > > > Instead they mostly tried to beat up anybody who > > > > spoke against any aspect of it, and as you just tried, to say the > > > > speaker uppers were acting like hippies from the 60's and merely > > > > wasting time. > > > > > > Sigh. Beating up? I don't think so. Sure, we called a spade a spade > > > when > > > people said that we were wasting our time in the wrong direction. The > > > time > > > to protest is past, we have to comply now. People fought the battle > and > > > lost. It's law and it's not gonna go away. So now what. What can we > > > DO??? > > > (other than jumping up and down pitching a fit???) > > > > > > > I believe in Government and Anarchy would be horrible, > > > > so at some point Government must be prepared to listen to people, > > > > especially an organization that purports to represent a large group > of > > > > people. That is WISPA and that was what the group was organized > for. > > > > > > No, we were organized to make our industry better. Part of that means > > > that > > > we're here to make our operators better. Part of that means that they > > > have > > > the knowledge and skills needed to comply with the laws as they exist. > > > There is NO way to change this law in time to deal with the compliance > > > issue. > > > > > > Some are content to sit on the sidelines and toss gas on the fires. > > > Others > > > are more interested in building fireproof houses. When we're working > from > > > a > > > platform built on rocks instead of sand, we can be much more powerful. > > > > > > No sense in wasting time fighting on the sand when solid ground is > just a > > > few steps away. Granted, the solid ground in the case of CALEA is > rocky > > > and > > > scary, it's also a bit of a hike to get to it. But once there the > ground > > > is > > > indeed solid. And, once we're done with our work, there will be a > nice > > > easy > > > to walk bridge to the solid ground. You'll still have to walk there > but > > > it'll be a much easier trip. > > > > > > > > > > > Heck, to come back from that meeting and simply parrot everything > that > > > > had been told to the committee was a waste of time and money to even > > > > go to the meeting. To achieve what they achieved could have been > done > > > > with a conference call, or simply done nothing. > > > > > > I can't believe anyone just said this out loud! Wowsers. > > > > > > We WENT there to learn answers to the questions that people have. > > > Bringing > > > those answers back was one of the goals of the trip! sheesh > > > > > > Guess we should have just kept our heads in the sand and pretended > that we > > > didn't know our asses were on fire. I'm floored by that paragraph. > > > > > > > > > > > The Telcos would never have sent a group and accepted an outcome > like > > > > that. > > > > > > Um, that's completely wrong. They've also been working closely with > the > > > FBI > > > on CALEA compliance. As an industry and in some cases individually. > > > > > > > > > > > I'll drop back to lurk mode now. The level of hurt feelings is > > > > growing, as evidenced by my private in basket. > > > > > > Hurt feelings? No. Not me anyway. I'm certainly flabergasted > though. > > > The > > > idea that someone that's not willing to actively help, not involved in > any > > > of the processes would ever talk in the certain terms of one that's > been > > > there and done that isn't what I'd expect from you. You make it sound > as > > > though you (and others arguing this same line) have been privy to all > of > > > the > > > backgound information that those of us riding in the front of the bus > can > > > see. We're up here busy steering the bus around the corners, making > sure > > > that we don't go over the cliff. And there are those looking out the > back > > > of the bus telling us we're idiots for not taking the road that we > happen > > > to > > > know is a dead end. > > > > > > Don't worry about me. I'll just mentally close that rear window > between > > > the > > > pick-up truck cab and those sitting in back. grin > > > marlon > > > > > > > > > > > Lonnie > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/17/07, Jeff Broadwick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> Lonnie, > > > >> > > > >> I've been quiet through this whole thing, but I have to speak up > here. > > > >> > > > >> CALEA is a reality here, and I believe that something like it will > soon > > > >> be a > > > >> reality in Canada. Shouting at the Capitol building from outside > the > > > >> fence > > > >> may feel good, but it gets nothing accomplished. The FACT is that > if > > > you > > > >> want to be a service provider you need to have a plan for CALEA > > > >> compliance. > > > >> It's everyone's right to say that it doesn't apply to them, but > that > > > >> doesn't > > > >> make them correct...and if they say it loud and often enough, > others > > > may > > > >> get > > > >> the wrong idea as well. > > > >> > > > >> We are involved heavily on the CALEA committee. Has everything > gone > > > >> exactly > > > >> the way we would like? No, but that's the nature of any committee > (and > > > >> Wispa is really a large committee), and we are ok with that. > Overall, > > > >> we've > > > >> been pleased to be part of forming Wispa's direction for CALEA > > > >> compliance. > > > >> I believe that we are further along in our efforts, and that Wispa > is > > > >> further along in the overall effort, because we joined in the > process. > > > >> > > > >> I don't think you are a freeloader. Everything I see and hear says > > > that > > > >> you > > > >> are a great guy and a fine businessman. You have been contributing > to > > > >> lists > > > >> for years and anyone who has been around knows that. > > > >> > > > >> I hope that you join in, you'd be a terrific addition to the team. > > > >> > > > >> Jeff > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > > >> Behalf Of Lonnie Nunweiler > > > >> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 2:55 PM > > > >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List > > > >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] What is WISPA? was Promotion of services on- > list > > > >> > > > >> I'm going out on a limb and will voice some things that have been > > > >> suppressed. > > > >> > > > >> I get your point that you think I am a freeloader and do not > > > contribute. > > > >> My > > > >> problem for not joining is not a money one, but rather one of > > > principle. > > > >> > > > >> I did get involved early on and saw that there was still an old > guard > > > of > > > >> the > > > >> good old boys. They played favorites early on and still do. > > > >> Is it proper to support that? It would be very BAD for the > Industry if > > > >> one > > > >> were to push and fight the GOB's, but, and this in not an excuse, I > do > > > >> not > > > >> have to time for such fights. There are other more important > things to > > > >> do, > > > >> so I lurk, and occasionally chime in when I feel something has been > > > >> really > > > >> missed or has gone overboard. It is better for me not to get into > > > fights > > > >> and the Organization does need that either. > > > >> > > > >> Do I support WISPA? Partly. When things like CALEA come up and > people > > > >> are > > > >> sent to talk with the FBI and FCC, what is their game plan? > > > >> What are they trying to do for the membership? All I saw was a > few > > > >> people > > > >> were star struck that they actually talked the HEAD of the FBI for > > > CALEA. > > > >> BIG DEAL. Those people put their pants on one leg at a time like > we > > > all > > > >> do. > > > >> Did you tell these guys what would be best for the Industry? Did > you > > > >> even > > > >> know what was good for the Industry? Or did you take your hat in > your > > > >> hand > > > >> and come back and use all sort of tactics to get people to sign > that > > > they > > > >> would be ready for CALEA compliance, when in fact nobody even knew > what > > > >> that > > > >> would require? > > > >> > > > >> I feel that WISPA should have taken a much harder line on that and > > > other > > > >> issues. Any members who spoke against what the FBI and FCC told > the > > > >> WISPA > > > >> group were quickly put down and isolated. It was disgusting to > watch. > > > >> It > > > >> certainly was not a functioning democracy. It was pretty heavy > handed. > > > >> > > > >> In short, I have not seen the organization really go to bat for the > > > >> membership. I can only imagine the crap that would hit the fan if > the > > > >> FBI > > > >> and FCC were to give the Telcos the same sort of treatment with > regards > > > >> to > > > >> time and unknown requirements that they gave to the WISPA people. > Sure > > > >> you > > > >> don't have the funds, but do you compromise everything until you > get > > > the > > > >> funds? Or do you stand up for what is right and people either > support > > > >> you > > > >> or not? My suspicion is you'll get the support if you represent > what > > > >> people > > > >> want. People vote with their feet and pocketbooks. I've seen a > lot of > > > >> good > > > >> people leave. > > > >> I've seen a lot of good people forced out because the GOB's could > not > > > >> stand > > > >> them. And I've seen a lot of good people (mostly everybody on this > > > list) > > > >> not support WISPA financially. Does that tell you anything? No > you > > > >> don't > > > >> need more Vendors, you need a reality check so you can get more > > > members. > > > >> This whole idea that you need more Vendors because they pay the > most > > > is, > > > >> well, so commercial sounding. I'm sure that business principles > have > > > to > > > >> be > > > >> used to run and account for things, but to raise money? No, that > > > should > > > >> not > > > >> be a business. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Lonnie > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On 5/17/07, Peter R. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> > (In response to Lonnie and Mac) > > > >> > > > > >> > 1) It takes money for an organization to do things. > > > >> > Sometimes vendors put up that money so that their customer base > > > >> > thrives. > > > >> > (Some times they do not). > > > >> > > > > >> > 2) It's always hard to get dues-paying members, especially when > the > > > >> > most value is the listserv. > > > >> > (Again, it ought to cost something to be here. If they want free, > go > > > >> > to ISP-Wireless). > > > >> > > > > >> > 3) Be careful how you represent your relationship to vendors. > > > >> > This is how one org received the reputation for being an RBOC > tool. > > > >> > You need a pro-member reputation. > > > >> > > > > >> > 4) That said, how many people on this list post more than once a > week > > > >> > and are NOT members? > > > >> > How many lurk - read every message - but aren't members? > > > >> > > > > >> > 5) Most here don't understand the energy, effort, time and money > it > > > >> > takes to run an association. > > > >> > If you give a hoot at all, you spend 2 to 5 hours daily on > issues, > > > >> > messages, board and committee stuff. > > > >> > Then travel to DC. Travel to some shows to get the WISPA name > under > > > >> > the lights. > > > >> > PR costs money, but to date are we doing any? > > > >> > Rent, utilities and salary even for a part-time administrator > would > > > be > > > >> > $30K per year (if outsourced to a certified association > management > > > >> > company). > > > >> > > > > >> > 6) The problem becomes when there are parties here who do not > 100% > > > >> > agree with the direction of the org. > > > >> > (And we have seen that problem recently). Unfortunately, the > answer > > > >> > for those that do not whole-heartedly agree is to pack their > stuff > > > and > > > >> > leave. (Now that is real adult). This association is by and for > the > > > >> > members -- to do everything to help you thrive and survive. You > as > > > >> > WISP's have responsibilities too - to comment, join, volunteer, > > > steer, > > > >> > and row the boat. If you don't want to do any (some) of that, why > get > > > >> > mad at the people and the direction? What did you do to steer? > > > >> > > > > >> > [Note} And PLEASE don't give me the I'm-too-freaking-busy or > > > >> > I'm-too-poor to help. That is an excuse. If you use excuses, then > you > > > >> > might as well close shop now. Just fess up: I'm too selfish or It > is > > > >> > easier to be a back seat driver. (As a back seat driver, you > don't > > > pay > > > >> > for gas, can point out all the short comings, and claim you > weren't > > > >> > steering.) > > > >> > > > > >> > 7) If you are going to be in the Wireless Broadband Industry next > > > >> > year, join WISPA now. The more members, the more voice. Plus you > get > > > >> > to vote for the new board. > > > >> > > > > >> > 7b) If you aren't going to join, and continue to be a free- > loader, > > > >> > then don't complain that you don't like the direction. No > potshots > > > >> > from the bleachers, okay? If you don't like something, volunteer > to > > > >> > work > > > >> on it. > > > >> > Be a part of the Solution, not a piece of the problem. > > > >> > > > > >> > Whew! > > > >> > > > > >> > Now, go sign up a customer, so you can join WISPA, since one > client > > > >> > will pay for your membership dues. > > > >> > > > > >> > Peter Radizeski > > > >> > RAD-INFO, Inc. > > > >> > > > > >> > -- > > > >> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > >> > > > > >> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > > >> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > >> > > > > >> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> Lonnie Nunweiler > > > >> Valemount Networks Corporation > > > >> http://www.star-os.com/ > > > >> -- > > > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > >> > > > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > >> > > > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > >> > > > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > >> > > > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Lonnie Nunweiler > > > > Valemount Networks Corporation > > > > http://www.star-os.com/ > > > > -- > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > -- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > -- > Lonnie Nunweiler > Valemount Networks Corporation > http://www.star-os.com/ > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
