Right, I know that.
Apparently I wasn't all that clear in that post.
Mikrotik is catching slack because you are technically able to do something
like that, yet no one has a beef with the other systems that have the same
functionality.
This also applies to frequency usage.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: Not Babble: WAS Re: [WISPA] MT Babble
Mike,
I'll do my best to answer your specific questions; I'll not attempt to
answer your more vaguely-worded general statements because there are too
many assumptions implied that I'm sure you understand but that are not
clear to me.
Certification has EVERYTHING to do with power. The FCC limits AP
transmitter to a maximum of 1 watt. The FCC limits EIRP to a maximum of
four watts. The certification process checks and verifies both transmitter
power and EIRP.
Your Orthogon is likely (I'm speculating here) prompting you for antenna
gain so it can reduce the transmitter power to legal levels given the
antenna that you tell it you are connecting. If you can tell it "3 dBi"
antenna gain and then hook up a 48 dBi antenna then you are intentionally
defeating it's attempt to keep you legal. It can try to keep the end-user
legal but it may not have a perfect ability to force everyone to be legal
or to keep people who just don't have a clue to be legal. As to how it is
designed to work, you can read the manual that came with your Orthogon or
you can research this at the FCC web site by searching and finding the
Orthogon certification and then reading the manual that Orthogon submitted
as part of their certification process. I don't have the time to do this
for you but you can certainly do it yourself and then come back here and
update us with your findings.
jack
Mike Hammett wrote:
The amount of power it can do certainly has nothing to do with
certification. The Orthogon link I have prompts me for the antenna gain,
just like MT. I could theoretically plug a 48 dbi antenna into either
one and type in 3. While probably not legal, the MT would have no
disadvantage to the Orthogon in this case. Is someone going to tell me
Orthogon is not legal?
If that's the case, then the only thing non-compliant about MT is the
RouterBoards haven't been certified as a computing device (if going the
PC route).
If going the traditional route, then all we have to do is mail it off to
a lab.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
----- Original Message ----- From: "Marlon K. Schafer"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: Not Babble: WAS Re: [WISPA] MT Babble
I disagree with you on this one Jack.
I've got plenty of certified products here that give me the ability to
set them for non fcc areas. All the need is a MODE that puts the device
into an FCC compatible format.
laters,
marlon
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 12:00 AM
Subject: Not Babble: WAS Re: [WISPA] MT Babble
Michael,
Just for info -
The question of being required to use a software version that denied
operation on non-US frequencies has been hanging over Mikrotik and
WISPs now for several months. Seems this is the last issue that needs
to be addressed before we will see a potential flood of Mikrotik-based
certified products because a lot of WISPs want to certify and/or use
Mikrotik-based equipment. To clear up any confusion, I submitted this
issue to the FCC via email. Here's my submission and the FCC response:
_My Submission: _
"For intentional radiators certified under Parts 15.247 and 15.401 must
the software allow operation ONLY on FCC permitted frequencies and at
FCC permitted power levels or can an equipment manufacturer submit a
system for certification that includes the ability to software-select
the country of operation as long as U.S. - FCC is included as one of
the selections?"
_FCC Response: _
"The current policy is that the manufacturer must employ some mechanism
on devices marketed in US so that the devices will not transmit in
unauthorized frequencies, and the mechanism must be outside of control
of the users. Therefore the method you mentioned is not permitted."
Michael, as you suggest, it is not difficult to submit questions to the
FCC. Your questions go a bit beyond mine therefore I welcomed your
offer to submit your questions to the FCC. I don't consider myself
"vocally" pushing anything. I just want to see more WISPs be able to
have access to low-cost certified equipment so 1) They won't put
themselves and their businesses at risk of high monetary fines and
possible shutdowns, and 2) The industry as a whole will benefit once we
shed this "outlaw" image and are seen as responsible business
operators.
Please do *go ahead* and submit your questions to the FCC as you
offered. I'm sure that the answers will be appreciated by a lot of
WISPs.
Respectfully,
jack
Michael Erskine wrote:
Ryan,
A few of you are making a lot of noise.
You seem to want to talk a lot about how MT is not certified and you
say "but if it were"...
Ryan, Why haven't you and those so vocal gone to the FCC with this
question already?
The FCC is but a telephone call away.
http://www.fcc.gov/
It never ceases to amaze me how men and women of obvious intelligence
will debate ad nasuiem
about how some government agency will rule on some topic, but never
will they find the courage
to simply call that agency and ask them. Rather they will wait till
someone suggests it and then
after all the debate and posturing, say, "Yeah, Go ahead! You call
them."
What a joke.
-m-
Ryan Langseth wrote:
On Mon, 2007-06-11 at 01:09 -0400, Michael Erskine wrote:
Rick;
I think that your opinion is like mine, both informed and
experienced. I am perfectly comfortable with my opinion. And I did
not get into an argument, or even suggest one was somehow a good
idea.
That said, let me also say this. If I don't have to have my router
boards certified without radios because they are not intentional
radiators, then when I add an FCC certified card to them I still
don't have to have them certified because they are still what they
were.
If you tell me that every PC running a pci wireless card has to be
certified then I'll go with suggesting that a single board computer,
which is designed to be a router, should also be certified like all
those PC's otherwise, Rick, I think that both you and Dawn are
incorrect.
1) drivers for the wireless card do not allow you to adjust power. 2)
comes with a small rubber ducky ant, not a 15db sector.
This discussion has come up on this list at probably least a dozen
times
since I have joined (less than a year ago). MT is not certified, end
of
chapter. Ask MT they will, most likely, tell you the same thing.
Like I said, I think your opinion is like mine, both informed and
experienced. I don't think you, or I, or Dawn, have the last word
in this matter and I'd be happy to take the issue up with the FCC to
get a reading from them.
Do this, I would like to read the next chapter, if they can get
certified though the PC method, I would take a look at their product.
Ryan
--
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
FCC License # PG-12-25133
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers
Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com
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Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
FCC License # PG-12-25133
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers
Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com
--
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