Btw, thanks Jack for the effort. Apparently, things change even without adjustment in the rules sometimes depending on which group is doing the interpretation. Next time I am up at the FCC talking to the guys with authority over the Lab I will again put the question to them and report back.
Patrick Leary AVP, Market Development Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit Alvarion at WiMAX World Chicago, September 25-27 Booth #409 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 8:33 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Flexible antenna certification Wow, that's a big surprise since it is a 180 degree contradiction to what Julie and his staff told us at the FCC after the rule was released. But I am good with it. It is a flexibility that makes sense. As a manufacturer, the only head ache is that providing tech support is more a challenge since we don't know the characteristics of substitute antennas from the stand point of best practices for co-location, separation and general performance. WISPs just need to be aware of that. I remember the day some years back when Sting Communications in Maryland was forced to change out dozens of antennas at tower sites because they chose an antenna that was not part of the certified combination, even though the antenna did not violate power rules. At least this means that WISPs no longer have that risk. Patrick Leary AVP, Market Development Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit Alvarion at WiMAX World Chicago, September 25-27 Booth #409 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 12:12 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Flexible antenna certification Patrick, I asked the certification lab/TCB that I work with to answer this question. They replied that it is their interpretation that a WISP can use any antenna /"of the same type and of equal or lesser gain as an antenna that is authorized with the intentional radiator". /Here's the text from 47 CRF 15.204(c)(4): "Any antenna that is of the same type and of equal of less gain directional gain as an antenna that is authorized with the intentional radiator may be marketed with, and used with, that intentional radiator. No retesting of this system configuration is required. The marketing or use of a system configuration that employs an antenna of a different type, or that operates at a higher gain, than the antenna authorized with the intentional radiator is not permitted unless the procedures specified in S2.1043 of this chapter are followed". 47 CFR 15.204(c)(3) says: "Manufacturers shall supply a list of acceptable antenna types with the application for equipment authorization of the intentional radiator". 47 CFR 15.204(c)(1) says: "The antenna type, as used in this paragraph, refers to antennas that have similar in-band and out-of-band radiation patterns". I can see how the lab and TCB could conclude that WISPs can substitute antennas per these regulations. If the manufacturer specifies a range of acceptable antenna types (not specific makes or model numbers) then per 15.204, the WISP can select the specific make and model of antenna to use. I know FCC regulations are often somewhat vague and however it's possible that the FCC regulations may have been revised and loosened slightly since your FCC visit. Perhaps there is now a basis for the "myth". jack Patrick Leary wrote: > Thanks Jack. I know what they are going to say (that I am correct), but > it is something that has to be repeated often since the myth is so > persistent. > > Patrick Leary > AVP, Market Development > Alvarion, Inc. > o: 650.314.2628 > c: 760.580.0080 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Visit Alvarion at WiMAX World > Chicago, September 25-27 > Booth #409 > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Jack Unger > Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 1:43 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Flexible antenna certification > > Patrick, > > In an attempt to get an up-to-date interpretation on this point, I just > emailed the Certification Lab that I work with to get their > interpretation of this rule. > > I'll post their answer as soon as I receive it in the next few days. > > jack > > > Patrick Leary wrote: > >> Mike, >> >> You are right, but you, as an operator, cannot make the choice or >> > decide > >> on your own what antenna toi uses, even if it has similar propagation >> patterns and a lower dBi. The FCC still requires the burden to be on >> > the > >> manufacturers to add antennas, it just does not make us go through the >> wringer now for every change. I do not know how many times I have to >> explain this on the various lists, but that is the fact. The order >> clearly says this AND I was there at the FCC right after the order and >> they explained that clearly, much to the chagrin of Marlon and others >> present. Here is the part in the order that clearly discusses the >> > fact > >> that it is still the manufacturer that holds the burden: "The >> manufacturer must supply a list of other acceptable antennas in the >> literature delivered to the customer." >> >> Patrick Leary >> AVP, Market Development >> Alvarion, Inc. >> o: 650.314.2628 >> c: 760.580.0080 >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> Visit Alvarion at WiMAX World >> Chicago, September 25-27 >> Booth #409 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > On > >> Behalf Of Mike Hammett >> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 6:47 AM >> To: WISPA List >> Subject: [WISPA] Flexible antenna certification >> >> Many times I've been asked to prove a regulation I swore happened. It >> was the one stating that once a radio manufacturer certifies a radio >> with an antenna of x gain, antennas with lower gain, but a similiar >> pattern and gain characteristics can be used without certification. >> >> On various lists I have been basically laughed at. Well, I found a >> reference to it today, so I tracked it down. >> >> Here is the text of the R&O in question: >> >> 8. In order to support more flexible antenna requirements for >> unlicensed devices, the Commission proposed to allow that devices be >> authorized for use with multiple antennas. Although the Commission >> proposed to modify Sec. 15.203 to implement the modifications, it >> believes that the changes are better suited for Sec. 15.204. >> Accordingly, the Commission modifies Sec. 15.204 to permit >> > intentional > >> radiators to be authorized with multiple antennas of similar in and >> out-of-band gain and radiation pattern. Compliance testing for the >> intentional radiator must be performed using the highest gain antenna >> that will be used with the device. The manufacturer must supply a list >> > > >> of other acceptable antennas in the literature delivered to the >> customer. >> >> >> >> > http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/multidb.cgi?WAISdbName=2004_regi > > ster+Federal+Register%2C+Volume+69+%282004%29&WAISqueryRule=%28%22page+5 > > 4027%22%29&WAIStemplate=multidb_results.html&WrapperTemplate=aces140_wra > >> pper.html&WAISqueryString=%22page+54027%22&WAISmaxHits=40 >> >> >> > http://frwebgate2.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate.cgi?WAISdocID=94961739 > >> 4663+1+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve >> >> >> > http://frwebgate2.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate.cgi?WAISdocID=94961739 > >> 4663+1+1+0&WAISaction=retrieve >> >> >> > http://frwebgate2.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate.cgi?WAISdocID=94961739 > >> 4663+1+2+0&WAISaction=retrieve >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> -------- >> >> ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 >> > at > >> ISPCON ** >> ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** >> ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** >> ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** >> ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at >> http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** >> >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> -------- >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> -------- >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> >> > ************************************************************************ > >> ************ >> >> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >> >> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & >> computer viruses(190). >> >> >> > ************************************************************************ > >> ************ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > ************************************************************************ > >> ************ >> >> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >> >> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & >> computer viruses(42). >> >> >> > ************************************************************************ > >> ************ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > ************************************************************************ > ************ This footnote confirms that this email message has been > scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, > vandals & computer viruses(84). > ************************************************************************ > ************ > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > ************************************************************************ > ************ > >> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & >> > computer viruses. > > ************************************************************************ > ************ > >> >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------- > >> ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 >> > at ISPCON ** > >> ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** >> ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** >> ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** >> ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at >> > http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------- > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------- > >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> >> > > -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. FCC License # PG-12-25133 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- WISPA Wants You! 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