This is a goofy debate Jeff. As you say, I work for 1 company. But, um, let's look at that one company:
Along with our good legacy business we have been living and breathing WiMAX before it had the name WiMAX. We have sold more WiMAX 802.16d multipoint than everyone else combined. We currently have a 60% share of 802.16e. We have held the number two slot (behind Intel) in the WiMAX Forum since it has been constituted in its sub-11 GHz role. We hold the official liaison role between ETSI HiperMAN and the IEEE. We chair 802.16h. Etc., etc. and there are other reasons including things most in my own company won't even know unless they work here at a high level. In other words, you can bet we know real what every other competitor, large and small, is doing and has done and it is part of jobs to know that stuff in more intimate detail than even most other insiders know and months before most outside know anything. And we certainly know where this technology is heading because we are among the main companies charting the course for Pete's sake. It is just the reality of our work and our position in this space, not because we are necessarily smarter. Kind of like even though I like wine and good beer, I know I'd be foolish to try to convince other social drinkers of certain subtleties or even basic points about ingredients or what's next in wine or beer after a brew master or head sommelier at the most inside and best selling beverage maker weighed in. Switch to networking and routing Jeff and I'll gladly shut up and concede as it is not my area of expertise and you'd probably eat my lunch on the topic, but on this subject you can toss around as many techno babble terms like MOFO as you'd like, but you simply do not have the perspective or understanding to pull them all together, combine them with the market machinations and developments to grasp the whole. The end result is that your just-enough-to-make-you-dangerous knowledge might lead even less knowledgeable people to poor decision making. Anyway, people here are hopefully smart enough to know which viewpoint has the most credence in terms where this technology is headed and I really should not bang my head against the wall any longer. Patrick -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:09 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax? All, Again, remember that patrick works for 1 company while I personally have the freedom as a consumer to talk to EVERYONE making equipment. yes a licensed version will look like an unlicensed, but will be just limited in output power. What is the point however of using 802.16e over 802.16d if you don't have the proper spectrum? Cmon! 1048 ofdm? still gotta go outdoors @ 5.8ghz! I just ran a link budget ( for fun and games ) - utilizing a high powered, high capacity base station solution @ 5.8 ghz for a NLOS cpe. This company uses beamforming, 2 x 2 mimo, uplink subchannelization, and guess what the effective range per cell for an indoor, window mounted CPE? .5KM @ 75% penetration @ bpsk 1/2. .25km for a self install @ 90% penetration. 802.16e doesn't always mean mobile, but some companies are coming out with solutions where there isnt backwards compatibility to 802.16d ( dont ask me why ) It all depends on who the MFR is, ( Axcellera is one, Solectek another ) The point is 802.16d is still DAMN sweet gear that can get you greater scaleability ( try up to 1000 subscribers per sector, or 8000 subscribers per base ) Carrier grade voice services, video services, T-1 grade internet, etc. - Jeff On Oct 8, 2007, at 10:08 AM, Patrick Leary wrote: > Another inaccurate post. Jeff assumes that a UL WiMAX 5.8 GHz system > will look like a licensed version. He also assumes 802.16e means > mobile > -- it does not, 802.16e systems can be mobile, fixed, nomadic or > combinations of these. The WiMAX Forum will eventually have an 802.16e > profile for 5 GHz, but the systems themselves will be designed for the > realities of UL in 5 GHz (so they will be designed for fixed). As > such, > they will not have lots of the expensive things needed in a mobile > WiMAX > network like ASN gateways, AAA servers, etc. > > At this point, it is probably best to ignore Jeff's posts regarding > WiMAX. They are thus far simply wildly off the mark. > > Patrick Leary > AVP, Market Development > Alvarion, Inc. > o: 650.314.2628 > c: 760.580.0080 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas > Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 3:29 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax? > > 802.16e in 5.8ghz would be absolutely the biggest waste of money ever > as you wouldn't get a true mobile network but your network costs > would be around, yaknow, 300k for a market of 20k people for just > BASE station equipment. > > The way to go if you are really worried about upward compatibility > ( and you own licenses or want to lease spectrum ) is to build a MOFO > network using ATCA solutions, but still you are talking for just 4 > sectors of Wimax with scaleablity to multiple bands and sectors, 50k > per base station to start. The key is going to market with a solution > that has both a SDR system but low cost initially. > > - > jeff > > > > On Oct 4, 2007, at 8:23 PM, Senthil wrote: > >> We did consider deploying Wi-Max 802.16e (802.16d totally out of >> the question) in 5.8 GHz but checking on the technical aspects of >> the standard Wi-Max still seems to be rather immature as most >> aspects are similar to 802.11a/g. Then again this applies only to >> the initial Wave-1 compliant Wi-Max devices but once wave-2 >> standardized equipment comes we should have smarter antenna systems >> (MIMO,beamforming) with which we will definitely get a better >> performance. >> >> So for the time being I think in terms of performance, pricing and >> technology it's better to stick to Wi-Fi! >> >> Senthil >> >> John Valenti wrote: >>> Just curious if anyone has seen a coverage map that compares WiFi >>> and WiMax? >>> >>> I spent a little bit of time researching WiMax, but decided I >>> would be unlikely to have a license and to just go with what I >>> have that mostly works (unlicensed). But I would like to know what >>> WiMax means in a rural, tree filled environment. >>> >>> As a novice WISP (about 18 months now), I can only hope for good >>> coverage with 2.4GHz to maybe a mile. A rare house might have LOS >>> farther than that, but generally there will be enough trees in the >>> way by a mile to block my signal. (this is using farm grain legs/ >>> silos for the AP, so maybe 150' max AGL) If I switch to 900MHz, >>> maybe the distance gets out to 2.5 miles. >>> >>> Would a 2.5GHz Wimax AP push the signal much better thru trees? I >>> suppose it would make a difference what was at the customer end - >>> a laptop with a WiMax card vs a fixed, outdoor radio. And does AP >>> height help a lot? I don't see an advantage to paying commercial >>> tower rates to get above 200' in my situation, but maybe that >>> changes with WiMax. >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> - > >>> ----------- >>> >>> ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th >>> 2007 at ISPCON ** >>> ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA >>> www.ispcon.com ** >>> ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** >>> ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** >>> ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http:// >>> www.ispcon.com/register.php ** >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> - > >>> ----------- >>> WISPA Wants You! 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