Their 45 has promise. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 1:04 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] top 10 benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz - my 2 cents
> Hi, > > You are correct... my mistake. > > However, the MM5 was going to be 5ghz along with an MM2 (2.4ghz) and MM9 > (900mhz)... but as you mentioned, the products have been discontinued. > Which really leaves me wondering what Trango is going to be selling? > Their 5 year old product is getting slow, and is still very expensive. :( > > Travis > > > Charles Wu wrote: >> Travis, >> >> The Trango 5830 / 900 / 2400 were up/down-coverted 802.11b - not 802.11a >> systems >> >> The only 802.11a multipoint system that Trango had was MM5, and it is my >> understanding that (1) it was never for 900 MHz and (2) it has been put >> on hold / discontinued >> >> -Charles >> >> ------------------------------------------- >> WiNOG Wireless Roadshows >> Coming to a City Near You >> http://www.winog.com >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >> Behalf Of Travis Johnson >> Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 1:08 AM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] top 10 benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz - my 2 cents >> >> What about Trango? >> >> Charles Wu wrote: >> >> So, what down converted 802.11a systems are there for 900? >> >> >> >> >> >> Mini-PCI: >> >> Ubiquiti >> >> Zcomax >> >> >> >> Vendor Solutions: >> >> Tranzeo >> >> Alvarion >> >> Vecima/WaveRider >> >> Wu-Wu Special* >> >> >> >> *We are doing some exploratory investigation =) >> >> >> >> -Charles >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Charles Wu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org><mailto:wireless@wispa.org> >> >> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 9:19 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] top 10 benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz - my 2 cents >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Even thought this thread is a bit old, couldn't help but add my 2 cents >> >> (as there seems to be a resurgence of "puff" in this space) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> DISCLAIMER: I am also a vendor of various WiMAX 802.16d systems - so feel >> >> free to apply your necessary 'BS' filter >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 1. Spectral efficiency ( 4.85 gross bp/hz ) On a six sector >> >> >> >> configuration with only 25mhz of spectrum, you can effectively deliver >> >> >> >> approx 20mb per sector or 120 mb / per pop, 240 mb when all 50 mhz is >> >> >> >> supported. Support for thousands of subscribers is possible off the same >> >> >> >> BSU. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> This isn't all too exciting, IMO - there are plenty of systems out there >> >> that have similar (if not better) spectral efficiency characteristics as >> >> to what the WiMAX 802.16d standard offers...also, with the uncertainties >> >> of 3650 licensing, which is, from an interference protection perspective, >> >> not that much different that Part-15, higher order modulation schemes >> >> don't do much in the presence of noise >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Case in point: Why does everyone keep using Canopy 900 MHz systems when >> >> you can get an 802.11a OFDM-based down-converted system that delivers >> 3-4x >> >> the throughput? Well, it's a matter of what's actually going to work in >> >> the crowded 900 MHz band. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 2. multiple vendor support ( currently you have Redline, Aperto, >> >> >> >> Airspan, Alvarion, all with FCC approved equipment ) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The "concept" of interoperability is one of the most "oversold" features >> >> of WiMAX which needs to be explained... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Fictitious Scenario: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Say I had deployed Brand A system for my business users, and in order to >> >> enable VoIP services, I enable a variety of the more advanced MAC >> features >> >> (rTP for my VoIP)...I set up a variety of service flows that are >> >> customized to each user...blah blah blah >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Problem is, Brand A system, for whatever reason, didn't support UGS and a >> >> few esoteric service flow / packet filtering features, but at the time, >> >> I'm really not too concerned because (a) my customers don't demand UGS >> >> from me right now and (b) the concept of "WiMAX interoperability" story >> >> gives me the conclusion that if I really need UGS, I could just buy / >> >> upgrade to Brand X system and retain all of my Brand A CPEs that I've >> >> deployed. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Now, 6 months later, I've deployed 50 CPE in the field, and business is >> >> doing good...so good in fact that 2 customers want to upgrade to a >> >> "premium" service that requires features not currently supported on Brand >> >> A AP. Luckily, I have a "WiMAX" system so I go upgrade Brand A AP with >> >> Brand X. Common sense would lead me to believe that Brand X would >> support >> >> all of my CPE's features, plus supporting the enhanced feature of UGS >> that >> >> I need >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Sorry, isn't going to work >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> As things turn out, the only "interoperability" testing done between >> Brand >> >> A CPEs and Brand X APs were done at the Best Effort feature set (basic >> >> Ethernet connectivity)...additionally, Rf interoperability was done at a >> >> 3.5 MHz channel size, and I've been running Brand A at 10 MHz to maximize >> >> my throughput (oh, and Brand X only supports 3.5 MHz, 5 MHz & 7 MHz >> >> channel sizes)...so to get this interoperability, I lose all of my rTP / >> >> VoIP prioritization for my entire network, or I have to go out and >> replace >> >> my 20 Brand A CPEs that are running VoIP with Brand X CPEs >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Oops >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> What's the moral of the story? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Ultimately, unless you're willing to run your network at the lowest >> common >> >> denominator, you're basically buying into a proprietary system. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 3. Better RF performance ( even with siso systems ) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Better RF performance as compared to what? And in what vein? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I can easily "slant" the argument the other way by bringing up an example >> >> where a proprietary system outperforms WiMAX >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Noise Immunity: Are you saying that WiMAX has better noise immunity that >> >> Canopy (OFDM vs. FSK...yeah right) >> >> >> >> NLOS: Are you saying that WiMAX can do better NLoS than 900 MHz? >> >> >> >> Urban Reflective NLOS: Are you saying that WiMAX can do better Urban NLoS >> >> than a MIMO-based 1024-FFT OFDM system? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 4. NLOS performance ( OFDM+OFDMA = More difficult shots obtain link ) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> See above >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 5. Better QOS support, and service flows ( UGS, NRTPS, ETC can be ) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> There can be an argument made that the WiMAX MAC is much more >> >> sophisticated than the Canopy / Alvarion VL / Trango / Tranzeo / CSMA-CA >> >> systems on the market today...that said, don't forget that there is a >> >> $$$COST$$$ for this sophistication...namely, you effectively lock >> yourself >> >> into a "proprietary" implementation of your WiMAX system >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 6. Greater scalablity ( Single sector can support hundreds of >> >> >> >> subscribers, our platform supports 30,000 pps ) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> WiMAX in it's true tested and interoperable state maxes out at an >> >> aggregate "throughput" range of ~10 Mbps per AP >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> To get better performance (up to 20 Mbps / AP), I give up >> interoperability >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 7. Support for multiline VOIP out of box ( UGS + 30K PPS ) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> At the expense of interoperability >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 8. Sub 350 cpe shipping today ( in 100 packs, less with frame order >> >> >> >> commitments putting your cost sub 300 ) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Ubiquiti Lightstations are sub-$100 >> >> >> >> Tranzeos / Deliberant / whatever are in the $100-200 range >> >> >> >> Motorola Canopy / Alvarion is in the $200-300 range >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Oh, and they (just like WiMAX) are basically proprietary >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 9. Carrier class systems vs Wisp class ( True 99.999% uptime solutions >> >> >> >> available for base station equipment, reducing downtime and truck rolls >> >> >> >> ) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Carrier Class = $10k APs >> >> >> >> If you're willing to spend $10k for an AP - you can get a proprietary >> >> 'WISP' system that has all the "carrier-class" features of "WiMAX" >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 10. Carrier class network management systems that simplify provisioning >> >> >> >> and management of subscribers and base stations. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Lol...I find this amusing...as the WiMAX specification "overcomplicates" >> >> the provisioning process, so you now have the need to purchase a system >> to >> >> simplify provisioning so it will work like a Canopy / Trango / Tranzeo / >> >> Alvarion =) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Supply and Demand at its best =/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> That said, if you are still interested in WiMAX after this "cold dose of >> >> reality," we have plenty of radios in stock =) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -Charles >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> WISPA Wants You! 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