I do understand how it works. I also understand (not sure if this is what you're getting at) that an AP capable of 20 megabits to a single person may not be capable of an aggregate of 20 megabits to 30 people.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -------------------------------------------------- From: "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 12:41 AM To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article > Dear Mike, > > You miss the point and possibly so does Josh. Because an AP can deliver > "x" amount of throughput during a speed test between two location does > not mean that the same AP can deliver that amount of throughput to all > the customers simultaneously. The AP's throughput is shared between all > of the end-users. When the AP maxes out, some (possibly all) of those > end-users must slow down. Some WISPs do not understand this and thus > they end up over-promising throughput and disappointing their customers. > WISPs need to understand this or they will fail in this business and > give other WISPs a black eye in the process. Nobody is getting beat up > here; this has nothing to do with personalities. It has everything to do > with the physics of data communications behavior. Everybody needs to > understand the true limits of their system. > > Why is this? Because the "air" is a shared medium. Throughput delivery > takes real-world time in intervals we call "time-slots". You can only > carry so much throughput during one time-slot. There area only so many > time-slots (fractions of a second) in each second. This is why > throughput is limited. Only so many users can be on one AP at the same > time if they are requesting a large amount of the available AP > throughput. A lightly-loaded system may appear to be able to deliver max > throughput simultaneously to those few customers but when the AP is > heavily loaded with users who are vying for a lot of throughput > simultaneously then most of them will need to slow down because not > everyone will get all the time slots they need to carry the high > throughput (ex: video streaming) levels that they are requesting. > > Don't make this personal; that simply detracts from the very real > technical limits that a successful WISP must understand in order to > succeed and survive. > > jack > > > Mike Hammett wrote: >> I didn't get that at all. >> >> It seems as though when anyone on this list suggests going faster than 2 >> megabits, they get beat up. Sorry, Charlie, BA-II was outdated long ago. >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> >> >> >> From: Jack Unger >> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 6:55 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article >> >> >> So how many of your customers can you serve 26 Mb to SIMULTANEOUSLY from >> the same AP? It sounds like you are saying that you can serve all of them >> 26 Mb simultaneously. >> >> Josh Luthman wrote: >> Each customer has an MT - capable of 26mbps to their home. Each tower >> has a >> Redline to it, throughput as high as the key purchased (54 megs). >> >> Josh Luthman >> Office: 937-552-2340 >> Direct: 937-552-2343 >> 1100 Wayne St >> Suite 1337 >> Troy, OH 45373 >> >> Those who don't understand Wireless are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. >> --- Henry Spencer >> >> >> On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 4:53 PM, Jack Unger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> Josh Luthman wrote: >> >> My 5.8 customers can do 10+ megs... >> >> The estimated throughput on the MTs is 30 to 31 megs. Real bandwidth >> tests >> show 26 megs. >> >> >> So do you deploy one MT for each customer or do you share that 26 Mb >> between all of your customers on that one access point? >> >> Josh Luthman >> Office: 937-552-2340 >> Direct: 937-552-2343 >> 1100 Wayne St >> Suite 1337 >> Troy, OH 45373 >> >> Those who don't understand Wireless are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. >> --- Henry Spencer >> >> >> On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 3:40 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> >> >> And which telco is this going to bail out? Money from Congress to >> industry = pay off Unions for votes. >> >> We will never, ever, ever, ever qualify. >> >> Another headliner article I read on this will redefine "broadband" as >> over >> 10 Meg. >> >> Nothing like disqualifying almost the entire WISP industry... >> >> >> >> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> <insert witty tagline here> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rick Harnish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org> <wireless@wispa.org> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:20 AM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article >> >> >> >> >> Jeff, >> >> Just to let you know, I am in Washington DC this week participating in >> >> >> the >> >> >> events below. WISPA has signed on as a supporter of the Call to Action >> >> >> to >> >> >> define the Nationwide Broadband Strategy. It was great to see all the >> players of the Broadband Industry working together to attempt to bring >> >> >> the >> >> >> US back up to the top of the Broadband Access ladder. It will be a busy >> three months while this strategy is defined and presented to the Obama >> Administration. >> >> Respectfully, >> >> Rick Harnish >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On >> Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick >> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 1:21 PM >> To: 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: [WISPA] Article >> >> >> >> >> >> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/02/AR2008120203 >> >> 164_pf.html >> >> New Coalition Drawing Up Nationwide Broadband Access Strategy >> >> By Cecilia Kang >> Washington Post Staff Writer >> Wednesday, December 3, 2008; D03 >> >> President-elect Barack Obama has said getting affordable high-speed >> Internet >> service to every American home would create jobs, fuel economic growth >> >> >> and >> >> >> spark innovation. Yesterday, representatives from technology and >> telecommunications companies, labor unions and public interest groups >> frequently at odds with one another agreed to provide the next president >> with a roadmap for how to accomplish those goals. >> >> That map could include tax breaks, low-interest loans, subsidies and >> public-private partnerships to encourage more investments in upgrading >> >> >> and >> >> >> building out high-speed networks, representatives from Google, AT&T and >> public interest group Free Press said during a panel discussion on >> broadband >> policy that also served as a coming-out party for their newly formed >> coalition. >> >> The details of how to meet those goals still must be worked out by the >> group, whose aim is to bring more affordable high-speed Internet access >> >> >> to >> >> >> every consumer. >> >> Many of the group members have been at odds with each other on whether >> >> >> the >> >> >> government should set limits on how much spectrum a company can hold, >> the >> use of unlicensed devices on fallow broadcast airwaves and net >> neutrality -- >> the notion that network operators should be prevented from blocking or >> slowing Internet traffic. The formation of the group is an effort to move >> beyond their differences. >> >> "The coalition is a positive in that it demonstrates we agree that we >> >> >> have >> >> >> a >> broadband problem, which not everyone was willing to admit to two years >> ago," said Ben Scott, policy director at Free Press and a member of the >> group. "The key is whether we'll see this group produce policy solutions >> that will require difficult choices." >> >> At stake is the nation's ability to compete technologically and >> economically, the group said. The United States has dropped from the top >> 10 >> nations for broadband access, speeds and price in the last several years. >> The coalition is pushing for a federal plan that would provide access to >> high-speed Internet service, much as the government did with electricity, >> roads and phone service. >> >> Obama famously used the Internet for outreach during his campaign and >> received 370,000 donations online. He's proposed using blogs, social >> networking tools and community Web pages known as wikis to connect >> citizens >> to government agencies. And Obama has argued for massive upgrades to >> technology infrastructure such as high-speed, or broadband, Internet. >> >> So far the coalition's plans to increase broadband usage mirrors Obama's >> plan, but there could be disagreement over deployment, analysts said. >> >> Communications Workers of America President Larry Cohen said the union >> supports a proposal by Sen. John D. Rockefeller IV (D-W.Va.) to increase >> definitions for broadband to 10 megabits per second for downloads by >> >> >> 2010. >> >> >> The current definition for broadband speed in the United States is 768 >> kilobits per second downstream, which is far below standards in many >> >> >> other >> >> >> nations. >> >> Achieving that goal at prices acceptable to consumers, however, would be >> expensive for telecom and cable network operators. Some in the coalition >> could push for laws that would achieve lower prices and higher speeds >> through more wireless and telecom competitors, but that could cause >> further >> disagreement among members, Scott said. >> >> Some have already suggested requesting funds from the federal economic >> stimulus plan for broadband deployment. Yesterday, an aide to House >> Speaker >> Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said Pelosi was in favor of that idea. >> >> AT&T chief lobbyist Jim Cicconi said the company has moved closer to the >> view of public interest groups and Google that the Web should be open for >> all users without discrimination of technology and content on their >> network. >> But unlike Free Press and consumer groups, AT&T opposes new laws or rules >> on >> net neutrality, saying Federal Communications Commission rules are >> sufficient, and any violation should be handled on a case-by-case basis. >> >> "There will be significant outstanding debates that will be very tough >> >> >> and >> >> >> there will still be daylight between the groups on many, many issues," >> said >> Rebecca Arbogast, an analyst at investment firm Stifel Nicolaus. "But >> >> >> both >> >> >> sides are in a phase right now where they are emphasizing how much they >> share in terms of their views on what is an appropriate framework for >> looking at this issue." >> >> >> >> >> Jeff Broadwick >> Sales Manager, ImageStream >> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) >> +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) >> +1 574-935-8488 (Fax) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> ---- >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> ---- >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> -- >> Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. >> Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 >> Cisco Press Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" >> WISPs - Do you know where your customers are? >> For wireless coverage mapping see http://www.ask-wi.com/mapping >> FCC Lic. #PG-12-25133 LinkedIn Profile >> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger> >> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger> >> Phone 818-227-4220 Email <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> >> > > -- > Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. > Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 > Cisco Press Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" > WISPs - Do you know where your customers are? > For wireless coverage mapping see http://www.ask-wi.com/mapping > FCC Lic. #PG-12-25133 LinkedIn Profile > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger> > Phone 818-227-4220 Email <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
