No, I believe some do not understand it yet... someday they will however. Mike Hammett wrote: > I thought we all understood subtraction. > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > > From: Jack Unger > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 3:40 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article > > > What I'm trying to say is that an AP that is capable of 20 Mb when there is > only one customer must share that same 20 Mb between ALL the customers once > more than one customer is connected to it. If one user draws 5 Mb continually > then only 15 Mb remain to be shared with and between all the remaining > customers. If a second user now draws 5 Mb continually then only 10 Mb > remains to be shared by all the other customers. If four customers are each > drawing 5 Mb continually then there is NO remaining throughput for any of the > remaining customers. > > > Mike Hammett wrote: > I do understand how it works. I also understand (not sure if this is what > you're getting at) that an AP capable of 20 megabits to a single person may > not be capable of an aggregate of 20 megabits to 30 people. > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 12:41 AM > To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article > > Dear Mike, > > You miss the point and possibly so does Josh. Because an AP can deliver > "x" amount of throughput during a speed test between two location does > not mean that the same AP can deliver that amount of throughput to all > the customers simultaneously. The AP's throughput is shared between all > of the end-users. When the AP maxes out, some (possibly all) of those > end-users must slow down. Some WISPs do not understand this and thus > they end up over-promising throughput and disappointing their customers. > WISPs need to understand this or they will fail in this business and > give other WISPs a black eye in the process. Nobody is getting beat up > here; this has nothing to do with personalities. It has everything to do > with the physics of data communications behavior. Everybody needs to > understand the true limits of their system. > > Why is this? Because the "air" is a shared medium. Throughput delivery > takes real-world time in intervals we call "time-slots". You can only > carry so much throughput during one time-slot. There area only so many > time-slots (fractions of a second) in each second. This is why > throughput is limited. Only so many users can be on one AP at the same > time if they are requesting a large amount of the available AP > throughput. A lightly-loaded system may appear to be able to deliver max > throughput simultaneously to those few customers but when the AP is > heavily loaded with users who are vying for a lot of throughput > simultaneously then most of them will need to slow down because not > everyone will get all the time slots they need to carry the high > throughput (ex: video streaming) levels that they are requesting. > > Don't make this personal; that simply detracts from the very real > technical limits that a successful WISP must understand in order to > succeed and survive. > > jack > > > Mike Hammett wrote: > I didn't get that at all. > > It seems as though when anyone on this list suggests going faster than 2 > megabits, they get beat up. Sorry, Charlie, BA-II was outdated long ago. > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > > From: Jack Unger > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 6:55 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article > > > So how many of your customers can you serve 26 Mb to SIMULTANEOUSLY from > the same AP? It sounds like you are saying that you can serve all of them > 26 Mb simultaneously. > > Josh Luthman wrote: > Each customer has an MT - capable of 26mbps to their home. Each tower > has a > Redline to it, throughput as high as the key purchased (54 megs). > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > Those who don't understand Wireless are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. > --- Henry Spencer > > > On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 4:53 PM, Jack Unger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Josh Luthman wrote: > > My 5.8 customers can do 10+ megs... > > The estimated throughput on the MTs is 30 to 31 megs. Real bandwidth > tests > show 26 megs. > > > So do you deploy one MT for each customer or do you share that 26 Mb > between all of your customers on that one access point? > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > Those who don't understand Wireless are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. > --- Henry Spencer > > > On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 3:40 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > And which telco is this going to bail out? Money from Congress to > industry = pay off Unions for votes. > > We will never, ever, ever, ever qualify. > > Another headliner article I read on this will redefine "broadband" as > over > 10 Meg. > > Nothing like disqualifying almost the entire WISP industry... > > > > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > <insert witty tagline here> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rick Harnish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org> <wireless@wispa.org> > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:20 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article > > > > > Jeff, > > Just to let you know, I am in Washington DC this week participating in > > > the > > > events below. WISPA has signed on as a supporter of the Call to Action > > > to > > > define the Nationwide Broadband Strategy. It was great to see all the > players of the Broadband Industry working together to attempt to bring > > > the > > > US back up to the top of the Broadband Access ladder. It will be a busy > three months while this strategy is defined and presented to the Obama > Administration. > > Respectfully, > > Rick Harnish > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On > Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 1:21 PM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: [WISPA] Article > > > > > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/02/AR2008120203 > > 164_pf.html > > New Coalition Drawing Up Nationwide Broadband Access Strategy > > By Cecilia Kang > Washington Post Staff Writer > Wednesday, December 3, 2008; D03 > > President-elect Barack Obama has said getting affordable high-speed > Internet > service to every American home would create jobs, fuel economic growth > > > and > > > spark innovation. Yesterday, representatives from technology and > telecommunications companies, labor unions and public interest groups > frequently at odds with one another agreed to provide the next president > with a roadmap for how to accomplish those goals. > > That map could include tax breaks, low-interest loans, subsidies and > public-private partnerships to encourage more investments in upgrading > > > and > > > building out high-speed networks, representatives from Google, AT&T and > public interest group Free Press said during a panel discussion on > broadband > policy that also served as a coming-out party for their newly formed > coalition. > > The details of how to meet those goals still must be worked out by the > group, whose aim is to bring more affordable high-speed Internet access > > > to > > > every consumer. > > Many of the group members have been at odds with each other on whether > > > the > > > government should set limits on how much spectrum a company can hold, > the > use of unlicensed devices on fallow broadcast airwaves and net > neutrality -- > the notion that network operators should be prevented from blocking or > slowing Internet traffic. The formation of the group is an effort to move > beyond their differences. > > "The coalition is a positive in that it demonstrates we agree that we > > > have > > > a > broadband problem, which not everyone was willing to admit to two years > ago," said Ben Scott, policy director at Free Press and a member of the > group. "The key is whether we'll see this group produce policy solutions > that will require difficult choices." > > At stake is the nation's ability to compete technologically and > economically, the group said. The United States has dropped from the top > 10 > nations for broadband access, speeds and price in the last several years. > The coalition is pushing for a federal plan that would provide access to > high-speed Internet service, much as the government did with electricity, > roads and phone service. > > Obama famously used the Internet for outreach during his campaign and > received 370,000 donations online. He's proposed using blogs, social > networking tools and community Web pages known as wikis to connect > citizens > to government agencies. And Obama has argued for massive upgrades to > technology infrastructure such as high-speed, or broadband, Internet. > > So far the coalition's plans to increase broadband usage mirrors Obama's > plan, but there could be disagreement over deployment, analysts said. > > Communications Workers of America President Larry Cohen said the union > supports a proposal by Sen. John D. Rockefeller IV (D-W.Va.) to increase > definitions for broadband to 10 megabits per second for downloads by > > > 2010. > > > The current definition for broadband speed in the United States is 768 > kilobits per second downstream, which is far below standards in many > > > other > > > nations. > > Achieving that goal at prices acceptable to consumers, however, would be > expensive for telecom and cable network operators. Some in the coalition > could push for laws that would achieve lower prices and higher speeds > through more wireless and telecom competitors, but that could cause > further > disagreement among members, Scott said. > > Some have already suggested requesting funds from the federal economic > stimulus plan for broadband deployment. Yesterday, an aide to House > Speaker > Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said Pelosi was in favor of that idea. > > AT&T chief lobbyist Jim Cicconi said the company has moved closer to the > view of public interest groups and Google that the Web should be open for > all users without discrimination of technology and content on their > network. > But unlike Free Press and consumer groups, AT&T opposes new laws or rules > on > net neutrality, saying Federal Communications Commission rules are > sufficient, and any violation should be handled on a case-by-case basis. > > "There will be significant outstanding debates that will be very tough > > > and > > > there will still be daylight between the groups on many, many issues," > said > Rebecca Arbogast, an analyst at investment firm Stifel Nicolaus. "But > > > both > > > sides are in a phase right now where they are emphasizing how much they > share in terms of their views on what is an appropriate framework for > looking at this issue." > > > > > Jeff Broadwick > Sales Manager, ImageStream > 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) > +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) > +1 574-935-8488 (Fax) > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ---- > WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ---- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > -- > Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. > Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 > Cisco Press Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" > WISPs - Do you know where your customers are? > For wireless coverage mapping see http://www.ask-wi.com/mapping > FCC Lic. #PG-12-25133 LinkedIn Profile > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger> > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger> > Phone 818-227-4220 Email <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > -- > Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. > Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 > Cisco Press Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" > WISPs - Do you know where your customers are? > For wireless coverage mapping see http://www.ask-wi.com/mapping > FCC Lic. #PG-12-25133 LinkedIn Profile > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger> > Phone 818-227-4220 Email <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > >
-- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Cisco Press Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" WISPs - Do you know where your customers are? For wireless coverage mapping see http://www.ask-wi.com/mapping FCC Lic. #PG-12-25133 LinkedIn Profile <http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger> Phone 818-227-4220 Email <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
