Amen from the peanut gallery Bret. You'd find interesting the, ahem, discussion taking place between us and the big guys inside the WiMAX Forum board room. I think it is fair to say some are dillusional about the LTE. Maybe I would be too if I'd bet my entire company on mobile WiMAX. And it is not that it is not a good standard -- it is. But best seldom wins when battling politics and all the vested interests in the status quo. Carriers never warmed to the idea of on open network; they want to control all the devices that ride on their networks. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile
________________________________ From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bret Clark Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 4:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Which WiMAX Are You? The 802.16e standard was a gallant effort, but by not be able to get the cellular carriers on board early on was an ominous sign and I knew right from the start that they wouldn't jump on board...open standards scare telephone (AKA cellular) companies because it removes their ability to control the end-users services and the pricing choke hold they have on customers; hence the reason why the move to LTE. And before people say LTE is standard base as well, I think we all agree its a controlled standard made specifically for cellular carriers and not the little guy trying to provide people with true alternatives. I agree with what you are saying Patrick with fact that the IEEE needs to focus more on the 802.16d standard as the go forward standard. That's not to say that the 802.16e standard can't play a role, but maybe it's focus should change more from a mobile solution to a semi-mobile solution. And what I mean by that it's a solution that provides temporarily connections on the fly (hence the semi-mobile idea). For example a business might be hosting a seminar at a conference center and needs to bring in temporarily data connectivity for the day or a companies main office has shut down due to some unforeseen event and needs to open a remote office ASAP with instant data connectivity. In any case, having been someone who was involved with the IEEE 802.11 standard (man I'm dating myself) if there was one thing I learn with my involvement with the IEEE is that the best standards are the ones that focus on doing one thing and do it well. Bret Matt Liotta wrote: E is only really useful for mobile and mobile is not supportable with the current 3650 rules. -Matt On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 6:42 PM, Tim Sylvester <t...@avanzarnetworks.com> <mailto:t...@avanzarnetworks.com> wrote: I would like to see more vendors support 802.16e at 3.65GHz. Also I would like to see 802.16e at 3.65GHz supported in a netbook and a USB dongle. Does anyone know if the Intel WiMAX chips support 3.65GHz? Tim -----Original Message----- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 3:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Which WiMAX Are You? I look forward to seeing everyone at 4G World next week. Personally, I don't care for D or E in a fixed deployment, but if you nailed me down I would go with D. WiMAX tries to be too many things for too many people. WiMAX-based proprietary systems are far more useful for fixed deployments. -Matt On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 5:28 PM, Patrick Leary <ple...@apertonet.com> <mailto:ple...@apertonet.com> wrote: The subject question is one Aperto thinks should be asked and now is the time to ask it. The WiMAX Forum has been beating the 802.16e drum in a manner trying to chump 802.16d. The fact is, there are two WiMAX standards, not one. By the Forum's own words from a 2005 paper it put out in November 2005, penned by Monica Paoli of Seza Fila: "The WiMAX Forum is committed to providing optimized solutions for fixed, nomadic, portable and mobile broadband wireless access. Two versions of WiMAX address the demand for these different types of access: * 802.16-2004 WiMAX. This is based on the 802.16-2004 version of the IEEE 802.16 standard and on ETSI HiperMAN. It uses Orthogonal Frequency Division Multiplexing (OFDM) and supports fixed and nomadic access in Line of Sight (LOS) and Non Line of Sight (NLOS) environments. * 802.16e WiMAX. Optimized for dynamic mobile radio channels, this version is based on the 802.16e amendment and provides support for handoffs and roaming." It is time the Forum own up to their own words, so Aperto is going to asking the question at 4G World coming up in Chicago next week. The fact is, the fixed standard is stable and ideal for what it was designed to do: deliver fixed (and limited nomadicity) wireless broadband. This version of the standard is better, yes better, than the mobile version for doing metroscale fixed. It provides 13% more capacity per MHz and 35% or so less latency. It can also be configured for symmetric or even higher ratio upstream vs. downstream, which is critical for networks doing high capacity upstream like video surveillance. For too long, vendors that now only do the mobile standard have been trying to squeeze the round peg of the mobile standard into the square hole of fixed networks. This has been confusing many, and leading some to overpay for their networks. Why pay for millions in R&D for features that you can never use, especially in a 3.65 GHz network where mobile can't happen? We have seen "consultants" spec'ing in E for 3.65 GHz, thinking they will get interoperability and even PC cards for their networks. They also think they can get self-install -- something this community knows is not possible in 3.65 GHz due to the power restrictions placed on indoor modems. Operators and other would-be WiMAX deployers are being hoodwinked. The E standard does enable use of diversity, but it comes at a high cost and is of limited benefit for rural operators. The truth is that diversity is designed to increase link budgets to support self- install. Basically, each standard has its place, E is for people in 2.5 GHz doing self-install, like Clearwire, and we all know the low service (especially low upstream) packages offered in Clearwire's service. D is better and cheaper for rural fixed operators, and especially for public safety video type networks and definitely for voice-centric users. D is better for enterprise, where many users sit behind the CPE. E is better for roaming individual users with modest expectations. We'd like to hear your opinions, and if you like to discuss this with us while at 4G World, please drop me a note. Regards, Patrick Leary Aperto Networks Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile --------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- WISPA Wants You! 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