Hmmmm. 2001 or 2002? It's the HARDEST one I've ever written. That one took months of research.
I really lucked out in getting permission from the guy that created the 3d antenna patterns. He and I ended up talking quite a bit (he reviewed the article before it was published as I recall), heck of a nice guy. laters, marlon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike" <m...@aweiowa.com> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 5:30 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] New install driving me crazy.... > Really nice article Marlon. Thanks for sharing. No date, when did > you write that? > > At 09:25 AM 10/19/2009, you wrote: >>It's probably just blind luck. The yagi may have it's side lobes in a >>different place. >> >>Also, look at some of the antenna patterns here: >>http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless/antenna/how_to_pick_the_right_antenna.htm >> >>They are all different. But the worst ones to use, by far, are grids. >>marlon >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Mike" <m...@aweiowa.com> >>To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 7:48 PM >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] New install driving me crazy.... >> >> >> > Yabut, a dish "concentrates the forward radiation." So does a >> > panel, a slot antenna, and many others. I just wondered why you >> > thought a Yagi solved your problem. A 2.4G yagi has large diameter >> > elements compared to wavelength, not like the old VHF Yagi's, but are >> > prone to icing in the winter up north. What magic did you find in >> > the Yagi? Just curious. >> > >> > "Lucy, you got some 'splainin' to do!" Ricky Ricardo >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > At 09:31 PM 10/18/2009, you wrote: >> >>Because yagi antenna concentrates the forward radiation and >> >>response. -Lucy :) >> >> >> >>On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 9:48 PM, Mike <m...@aweiowa.com> wrote: >> >> > Rick: >> >> > >> >> > Why did it solve the problem? Better side lobe attenuation? 'Splain >> >> > Lucy. >> >> > >> >> > Mike >> >> > >> >> > At 08:42 PM 10/18/2009, you wrote: >> >> >>I fixed a nasty multipath issue for one of my subs by using a yagi. >> >> >>Here are some good sources for info: >> >> >>http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/tutorials/article.php/1121691 >> >> >>www.crystalcomltd.com/...whitepapers/124102032509Berkeley_Multipath.pdf >> >> >>http://www.rfengineer.net/1171/rf-basics-multipath/ >> >> >>http://www.cisco.com/en/US/tech/tk722/tk809/technologies_tech_note >> >> 09186a008019f646.shtml >> >> >>-RickG >> >> >> >> >> >>On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Marlon K. Schafer >> >> >><o...@odessaoffice.com> wrote: >> >> >> > I don't Steve. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > But think of it like an echo. You get that first, clear >> >> signal coming in, >> >> >> > laser straight. Then at some point shortly after that you start >> >> >> getting the >> >> >> > reflections. If there are too many of them, and/or they are >> >> at the wrong >> >> >> > time the radio will get confused. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > G SHOULD handle this better than B. It's made to use >> >> multipath's echoes to >> >> >> > reassemble a complete message. Sometimes it works that way, >> >> sometimes it >> >> >> > doesn't. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I'd have to say, for me, g is usually better with multipath >> >> than b though. >> >> >> > B handles interference better. At least that's what I'm >> >> seeing. I have a >> >> >> > tower that was giving 1 meg down 2 to 3 up, almost all customers >> >> >> saw that or >> >> >> > worse. Swapped back to b mode only and it's now a consistent >> >> 4 megs both >> >> >> > ways. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Another thing to try is to turn down the power. Probably on >> >> both ends. If >> >> >> > you are at -69 see if you can drop your ap by 5 then 5 more >> >> db. Make sure >> >> >> > to drop the cpe by the same amount. What you are trying to do >> >> is move the >> >> >> > echo down so far that it can't be "heard". >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I've also had installs that are happiest about 2' above the >> >> >> > ground! >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Here's a fun one for you. I've got one customer that shoots >> >> near a grain >> >> >> > elevator. Most of the year he works fine, but near harvest, >> >> >> every year, his >> >> >> > performance goes out the window. It seems that the wheat in the >> >> >> elevator is >> >> >> > moved out and the empty elevator is worse than the full one. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Out here we have VERY long links. I have one at 18 >> >> >> miles. PTMP. Yet there >> >> >> > are also customers within 1 mile. 10 to 15 mile links are common >> >> >> > place. >> >> >> > Multipath is a real head ache as the ground conditions >> >> change. Customer's >> >> >> > service will be perfect, until it snows. Or until they >> >> harvest a field, or >> >> >> > the ground dries out, or it rains etc. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Fortunately MOST of the time this isn't an issue. But when it >> >> does hit ya, >> >> >> > it can be very hard to figure out. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > One other thing you might want to try with your customer, turn >> >> the radio to >> >> >> > the wrong polarity. You are very close to the tower so you >> >> >> > should >> >> >> > still >> >> >> > have enough signal. I've not had to do this very often, but >> >> it's a little >> >> >> > trick that has worked before. I've also pointed them 180* the >> >> >> wrong way and >> >> >> > had that work very well, especially with a grid. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Let us know if anything helps. >> >> >> > marlon >> >> >> > >> >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >> >> > From: "Steve Barnes" <st...@pcswin.com> >> >> >> > To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >> >> >> > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 7:07 AM >> >> >> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] New install driving me crazy.... >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Marlon, DO you have or know of a good white paper on >> >> Multipath issues? I >> >> >> >> agree with your assessment but I have several locations that I >> >> >> >> have >> >> >> >> not >> >> >> >> been able to resolve Multipath for. I had an installation last >> >> >> >> week 3 >> >> >> >> miles from tower AP. Clear line of site other than going over >> >> >> >> the >> >> >> >> Neighbors Metal barn and between 4 metal grain bins. We could >> >> get a -69 On >> >> >> >> 50% of the property but retries were 98% No matter where we >> >> tried High-Low >> >> >> >> left right. 100 yards either way on the road and <10% retries >> >> >> >> and >> >> >> >> a -65 >> >> >> >> signal. I just need to some documentation to solidify my >> >> understanding. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Steve Barnes >> >> >> >> Manager >> >> >> >> PCS-WIN >> >> >> >> RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through >> >> experience >> >> >> >> of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, vision >> >> >> >> cleared, >> >> >> >> ambition inspired, and success achieved. >> >> >> >> - Helen Keller >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> >> >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org >> >> >> >> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> >> >> >> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer >> >> >> >> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 9:45 AM >> >> >> >> To: WISPA General List >> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] New install driving me crazy.... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Is that a bigger or smaller antenna size than what you have now? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> If you moved up by 10' and increased your signal levels, what >> >> 1000% or so, >> >> >> >> I'd REALLY say that this is looking like a multipath issue. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Often with multipath I've seen the signals hold well but >> >> performance suck. >> >> >> >> It'll sometimes kill the signal though. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I had one install that has some power lines in the way. Fought >> >> >> >> intermittent >> >> >> >> outages etc. for over a year. His signal was OK, but not >> >> great. Finally >> >> >> >> something changes a bit and his signal dropped too low. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hmmm, bad radio. So I pulled his radio out and put in a brand >> >> >> >> new >> >> >> >> one, >> >> >> >> still crappy signal. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Double hmmmmm >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I put the old radio back in, left it off the mount and moved >> >> it around to >> >> >> >> see what would happen. (I always leave 6 to 10' of cable on the >> >> >> >> mount >> >> >> >> just >> >> >> >> for things like this.) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Triple hmmmmm >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Move the radio to the west 6' and DOWN 2' and he's got great >> >> >> >> signal, >> >> >> >> faster >> >> >> >> speeds than ever and is happy as a clam. Now one of my biggest >> >> >> >> PITA >> >> >> >> customers just never calls anymore. It was a very amazing >> >> transformation >> >> >> >> to >> >> >> >> his service. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Again, there were some powerlines *close* to the path but not in >> >> >> >> it. >> >> >> >> Things >> >> >> >> actually looked pretty good to me. But not to the radio. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Your symptoms look like multipath to me. We don't see it's >> >> >> >> effect >> >> >> >> very >> >> >> >> often, the systems handle it quite well today. But when it hits >> >> >> >> it >> >> >> >> can >> >> >> >> hit >> >> >> >> hard. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> laters, >> >> >> >> marlon >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> >> >> From: "Mark McElvy" <mmce...@accubak.com> >> >> >> >> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >> >> >> >> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 4:50 AM >> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] New install driving me crazy.... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Well before moving to the current setup, I originally had a >> >> >> >>> CPQ-19, 10 >> >> >> >>> ft lower. It had a -80 with the same result and I was seeing a >> >> >> >>> lot >> >> >> >>> of >> >> >> >>> retries. >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >> >> >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org >> >> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> >> >> >>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer >> >> >> >>> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 9:30 PM >> >> >> >>> To: WISPA General List >> >> >> >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] New install driving me crazy.... >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> Change from b to g or g to be mode. >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> Turn your power WAY down. That's way too hot of a signal. >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> Any metal, trees, houses, power lines etc. anywhere near the >> >> >> >>> signal >> >> >> >>> path? >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> This looks a LOT like multipath. >> >> >> >>> marlon >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> >> >>> From: "Mark McElvy" <mmce...@accubak.com> >> >> >> >>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >> >> >> >>> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 2:30 PM >> >> >> >>> Subject: [WISPA] New install driving me crazy.... >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>>> Installing a new customer, Tranzeo CPQ-19 to a MT AP, -60 >> >> >> >>>> signal >> >> >> >>> up/dn, >> >> >> >>>> -102 noise. About half the time I don't get name resolution >> >> >> >>>> and >> >> >> >>>> can't >> >> >> >>>> browse pages. This happens with two different radios. It is >> >> >> >>>> kind >> >> >> >>>> of >> >> >> >>>> acting like I am loosing routing or something. I also notice I >> >> >> >>>> will >> >> >> >>> get >> >> >> >>>> very high ping times sporadically along with drop pings. Best >> >> >> >>>> of >> >> >> >>>> my >> >> >> >>>> knowledge no one else having issue on this AP, about a dozen >> >> >> >>>> users. >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> Mark McElvy >> >> >> >>>> AccuBak Data Systems, Inc. >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> >>> -------- >> >> >> >>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> >> >> >>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> >>> -------- >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> >> >> >>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> >>> -------- >> >> >> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> >> >> >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> >>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> >>> -------- >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> >> >> >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> >> >> >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> >> >> >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> >> >> >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> >> >> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> >> >> >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> >> >> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> > WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> >> >> > http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> > >> >> >> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> >> >> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> -------------- >> >> >>WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> >> >>http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> -------------- >> >> >> >> >> >>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> >> >> >> >>Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> >> >>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> >> >> >> >>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> >> > http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> > >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > >> >> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> > >> >> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> >> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> > >> >> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------ >> -------------- >> >>WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> >>http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------ >> -------------- >> >> >> >>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> >> >>Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> >>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> >> >>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> > http://signup.wispa.org/ >> > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> > >> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> > >> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>http://signup.wispa.org/ >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >>Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
