I dont know about "blind" or "luck", when something doesnt work, I try things until they do :)
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 10:25 AM, Marlon K. Schafer <o...@odessaoffice.com> wrote: > It's probably just blind luck. The yagi may have it's side lobes in a > different place. > > Also, look at some of the antenna patterns here: > http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless/antenna/how_to_pick_the_right_antenna.htm > > They are all different. But the worst ones to use, by far, are grids. > marlon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike" <m...@aweiowa.com> > To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> > Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 7:48 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] New install driving me crazy.... > > >> Yabut, a dish "concentrates the forward radiation." So does a >> panel, a slot antenna, and many others. I just wondered why you >> thought a Yagi solved your problem. A 2.4G yagi has large diameter >> elements compared to wavelength, not like the old VHF Yagi's, but are >> prone to icing in the winter up north. What magic did you find in >> the Yagi? Just curious. >> >> "Lucy, you got some 'splainin' to do!" Ricky Ricardo >> >> >> >> >> At 09:31 PM 10/18/2009, you wrote: >>>Because yagi antenna concentrates the forward radiation and >>>response. -Lucy :) >>> >>>On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 9:48 PM, Mike <m...@aweiowa.com> wrote: >>> > Rick: >>> > >>> > Why did it solve the problem? Better side lobe attenuation? 'Splain >>> > Lucy. >>> > >>> > Mike >>> > >>> > At 08:42 PM 10/18/2009, you wrote: >>> >>I fixed a nasty multipath issue for one of my subs by using a yagi. >>> >>Here are some good sources for info: >>> >>http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/tutorials/article.php/1121691 >>> >>www.crystalcomltd.com/...whitepapers/124102032509Berkeley_Multipath.pdf >>> >>http://www.rfengineer.net/1171/rf-basics-multipath/ >>> >>http://www.cisco.com/en/US/tech/tk722/tk809/technologies_tech_note >>> 09186a008019f646.shtml >>> >>-RickG >>> >> >>> >>On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Marlon K. Schafer >>> >><o...@odessaoffice.com> wrote: >>> >> > I don't Steve. >>> >> > >>> >> > But think of it like an echo. You get that first, clear >>> signal coming in, >>> >> > laser straight. Then at some point shortly after that you start >>> >> getting the >>> >> > reflections. If there are too many of them, and/or they are >>> at the wrong >>> >> > time the radio will get confused. >>> >> > >>> >> > G SHOULD handle this better than B. It's made to use >>> multipath's echoes to >>> >> > reassemble a complete message. Sometimes it works that way, >>> sometimes it >>> >> > doesn't. >>> >> > >>> >> > I'd have to say, for me, g is usually better with multipath >>> than b though. >>> >> > B handles interference better. At least that's what I'm >>> seeing. I have a >>> >> > tower that was giving 1 meg down 2 to 3 up, almost all customers >>> >> saw that or >>> >> > worse. Swapped back to b mode only and it's now a consistent >>> 4 megs both >>> >> > ways. >>> >> > >>> >> > Another thing to try is to turn down the power. Probably on >>> both ends. If >>> >> > you are at -69 see if you can drop your ap by 5 then 5 more >>> db. Make sure >>> >> > to drop the cpe by the same amount. What you are trying to do >>> is move the >>> >> > echo down so far that it can't be "heard". >>> >> > >>> >> > I've also had installs that are happiest about 2' above the ground! >>> >> > >>> >> > Here's a fun one for you. I've got one customer that shoots >>> near a grain >>> >> > elevator. Most of the year he works fine, but near harvest, >>> >> every year, his >>> >> > performance goes out the window. It seems that the wheat in the >>> >> elevator is >>> >> > moved out and the empty elevator is worse than the full one. >>> >> > >>> >> > Out here we have VERY long links. I have one at 18 >>> >> miles. PTMP. Yet there >>> >> > are also customers within 1 mile. 10 to 15 mile links are common >>> >> > place. >>> >> > Multipath is a real head ache as the ground conditions >>> change. Customer's >>> >> > service will be perfect, until it snows. Or until they >>> harvest a field, or >>> >> > the ground dries out, or it rains etc. >>> >> > >>> >> > Fortunately MOST of the time this isn't an issue. But when it >>> does hit ya, >>> >> > it can be very hard to figure out. >>> >> > >>> >> > One other thing you might want to try with your customer, turn >>> the radio to >>> >> > the wrong polarity. You are very close to the tower so you should >>> >> > still >>> >> > have enough signal. I've not had to do this very often, but >>> it's a little >>> >> > trick that has worked before. I've also pointed them 180* the >>> >> wrong way and >>> >> > had that work very well, especially with a grid. >>> >> > >>> >> > Let us know if anything helps. >>> >> > marlon >>> >> > >>> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> >> > From: "Steve Barnes" <st...@pcswin.com> >>> >> > To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>> >> > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 7:07 AM >>> >> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] New install driving me crazy.... >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> >> Marlon, DO you have or know of a good white paper on >>> Multipath issues? I >>> >> >> agree with your assessment but I have several locations that I have >>> >> >> not >>> >> >> been able to resolve Multipath for. I had an installation last >>> >> >> week 3 >>> >> >> miles from tower AP. Clear line of site other than going over the >>> >> >> Neighbors Metal barn and between 4 metal grain bins. We could >>> get a -69 On >>> >> >> 50% of the property but retries were 98% No matter where we >>> tried High-Low >>> >> >> left right. 100 yards either way on the road and <10% retries and >>> >> >> a -65 >>> >> >> signal. I just need to some documentation to solidify my >>> understanding. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Steve Barnes >>> >> >> Manager >>> >> >> PCS-WIN >>> >> >> RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through >>> experience >>> >> >> of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, vision >>> >> >> cleared, >>> >> >> ambition inspired, and success achieved. >>> >> >> - Helen Keller >>> >> >> >>> >> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >> >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org >>> >> >> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >>> >> >> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer >>> >> >> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 9:45 AM >>> >> >> To: WISPA General List >>> >> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] New install driving me crazy.... >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Is that a bigger or smaller antenna size than what you have now? >>> >> >> >>> >> >> If you moved up by 10' and increased your signal levels, what >>> 1000% or so, >>> >> >> I'd REALLY say that this is looking like a multipath issue. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Often with multipath I've seen the signals hold well but >>> performance suck. >>> >> >> It'll sometimes kill the signal though. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> I had one install that has some power lines in the way. Fought >>> >> >> intermittent >>> >> >> outages etc. for over a year. His signal was OK, but not >>> great. Finally >>> >> >> something changes a bit and his signal dropped too low. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Hmmm, bad radio. So I pulled his radio out and put in a brand new >>> >> >> one, >>> >> >> still crappy signal. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Double hmmmmm >>> >> >> >>> >> >> I put the old radio back in, left it off the mount and moved >>> it around to >>> >> >> see what would happen. (I always leave 6 to 10' of cable on the >>> >> >> mount >>> >> >> just >>> >> >> for things like this.) >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Triple hmmmmm >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Move the radio to the west 6' and DOWN 2' and he's got great >>> >> >> signal, >>> >> >> faster >>> >> >> speeds than ever and is happy as a clam. Now one of my biggest >>> >> >> PITA >>> >> >> customers just never calls anymore. It was a very amazing >>> transformation >>> >> >> to >>> >> >> his service. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Again, there were some powerlines *close* to the path but not in >>> >> >> it. >>> >> >> Things >>> >> >> actually looked pretty good to me. But not to the radio. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Your symptoms look like multipath to me. We don't see it's effect >>> >> >> very >>> >> >> often, the systems handle it quite well today. But when it hits it >>> >> >> can >>> >> >> hit >>> >> >> hard. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> laters, >>> >> >> marlon >>> >> >> >>> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >> >> From: "Mark McElvy" <mmce...@accubak.com> >>> >> >> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>> >> >> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 4:50 AM >>> >> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] New install driving me crazy.... >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> Well before moving to the current setup, I originally had a >>> >> >>> CPQ-19, 10 >>> >> >>> ft lower. It had a -80 with the same result and I was seeing a lot >>> >> >>> of >>> >> >>> retries. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> >> >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org >>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >>> >> >>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer >>> >> >>> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 9:30 PM >>> >> >>> To: WISPA General List >>> >> >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] New install driving me crazy.... >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Change from b to g or g to be mode. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Turn your power WAY down. That's way too hot of a signal. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Any metal, trees, houses, power lines etc. anywhere near the >>> >> >>> signal >>> >> >>> path? >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> This looks a LOT like multipath. >>> >> >>> marlon >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >> >>> From: "Mark McElvy" <mmce...@accubak.com> >>> >> >>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>> >> >>> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 2:30 PM >>> >> >>> Subject: [WISPA] New install driving me crazy.... >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>>> Installing a new customer, Tranzeo CPQ-19 to a MT AP, -60 signal >>> >> >>> up/dn, >>> >> >>>> -102 noise. About half the time I don't get name resolution and >>> >> >>>> can't >>> >> >>>> browse pages. This happens with two different radios. It is kind >>> >> >>>> of >>> >> >>>> acting like I am loosing routing or something. I also notice I >>> >> >>>> will >>> >> >>> get >>> >> >>>> very high ping times sporadically along with drop pings. Best of >>> >> >>>> my >>> >> >>>> knowledge no one else having issue on this AP, about a dozen >>> >> >>>> users. >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> Mark McElvy >>> >> >>>> AccuBak Data Systems, Inc. >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >> >>> -------- >>> >> >>>> WISPA Wants You! 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