I believe the proposed changes have only dealt with the insurance side (government provided and more rules for the private sector insurance providers). On the healthcare provider (doctors, hospitals) side I believe they've only talked about rules. Maybe new government clinics that provide healthcare at discounted rates would help drive down costs in the private sector. What works well in Venezuela is the private and state run systems are separate. It doesn't matter how bad the state run system gets because you are free to go to the paid clinics, which don't charge exorbitant rates because it would drive everyone to the public system. What I worry about happening here is we lose a completely free and unfettered option. If the government really can do it better and cheaper then the private sector will follow suit. If the government needs to stifle the private sector and strong arm people into their plan it only shows they can't compete.
Greg On Dec 7, 2009, at 9:46 AM, Paul C Diem wrote: > "It's like taking a crappy football team and trying to fix the problem with > new uniforms." > > But the feds current answer is to create another football team, buy new > uniforms for their team with taxpayer dollars and then expect all the teams, > including theirs, to suddenly start performing well. > > Paul C Diem > pcd...@foxvalley.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:15 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance > > > Maybe government has to be the answer if we're going to address the problem > of the vast number of people who could afford insurance but choose to spend > their money elsewhere. It's going to require the government forcing them to > buy insurance or pay some tax that is used to fund health insurance. > > On the inside of the system - hospitals and insurance companies etc: Greed > and stupidity are the two root causes of waste in any enterprise. The > problem now is either people are profiting from the "waste" or they're too > immoral to care or to stupid to notice. Even if the government or private > industry itself massively overhauls healthcare there will still be the same > problems if it's still the same people involved. It's like taking a crappy > football team and trying to fix the problem with new uniforms. If in the > healthcare reform heads will roll then it stands a chance of working, but I > don't think anyone is talking about that. > > Greg > > On Dec 7, 2009, at 12:17 AM, RickG wrote: > >> That's right - government cant be the answer. Your questions are >> viable. We need to speak up and many have but unfortunately either >> they are not listening or dont care. I've not found anyone that wants >> the government running health care or even an "option". This includes >> many low wage earners I am acquainted with. So, I know where the >> people are who are against the bill but where are the proponents at? >> >> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:05 AM, Paul C Diem <pcd...@foxvalley.net> >> wrote: >> >>> Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government >>> funded program will do. >>> >>> Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because >>> is gets me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I >>> have about this: >>> >>> 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the >>> insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't >>> free enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A >>> is averaging a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise >>> generate a competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and >>> still make a great $75 billion/year? >>> >>> 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored >>> health care insurance program is to create competition in the >>> insurance industry. How can tax dollar funded anything be considered >>> true competition to free enterprises in any industry? >>> >>> Paul C Diem >>> pcd...@foxvalley.net >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>> On Behalf Of RickG >>> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM >>> To: WISPA General List >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance >>> >>> >>> I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of >>> liberty and not that it's an "extra tax". Either way I'd have >>> insurance on my vehicles. I would agree that the cost is too high >>> which is for the same reasons our health care is so high. I too have >>> been one of those people that begged not to send me to the hospital >>> because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up there, I still paid >>> several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I had absolutely >>> the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live & kickin >>> for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want >>> any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about >>> is why it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a wise old >>> friend of mine used to say "follow the dollar". Thats what needs to >>> be fixed. Then our health care policies will go down but not until >>> the waste is corrected. -RickG >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Ryan Spott <rsp...@cspott.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> "My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care >>>> system. One of the fastest growing industries is private >>>> healthcare. If you want better service or do not want to wait in >>>> huge lines or want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to >>>> visit the private services." >>>> >>>> That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I >>>> am tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in >>>> the poor-house. >>>> >>>> I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients >>>> (sometimes in horrific car accidents) that ask me to NOT take them >>>> to the hospital because they cannot afford it. Imagine looking down >>>> on someone that you just extracted from a car wreck and have >>>> strapped to a backboard begging you to let them up and let them out >>>> because of the financial burden of going to the hospital. >>>> >>>> I am more than happy to pay for "extra" medical services. Whatever >>>> those may be.. Heck, I can even buy more insurance if I need to. I >>>> buy extra insurance riders for my car to cover me when I am driving >>>> on private forest-lands >>> on >>>> top of the mandatory insurance needed for my vehicle. >>>> >>>> Why are we not having a discussion regarding required insurance for >>>> vehicles? Aren't you just as p-o-ed that you are required to "pay >>>> that extra tax" to drive your car? >>>> >>>> Again.. need more sleep, less coffee.. Sorry to rant so much... >>>> >>>> ryan >>>> >>>> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Nathan Stooke >>>> <nstooke...@wisperisp.com >>>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>>> I worked on a programming project for one of the guys that >>>>> started WedMD years back. He was starting another company that >>>>> worked with the insurance flow of paper work. He said several >>>>> times that 70% to 80% of >>>> the >>>>> insurance premiums we pay go to the "middle" man and not to pay for >>>>> the doctors services. >>>>> >>>>> My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health >>>>> care system. One of the fastest growing industries is private >>>>> healthcare. If you want better service or do not want to wait in >>>>> huge lines or want to >>>> go >>>>> to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private >>>>> services. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org >>>>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>>> On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz >>>>> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:22 AM >>>>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance >>>>> >>>>> Yes, we in South Florida have some of the highest insurance rates >>>>> (all types of insurance). There are many reasons, non of them that >>>>> make a great deal of sense to me, but I have heard all kinds of >>>>> excuses... >>>>> >>>>> The original point was, >>>>> Health Care Insurance is a necessity. >>>>> Health Care Insurance should be a vital benefit, provided by an >>>> Employer >>>>> whenever possible. >>>>> Health Care Insurance is expensive.... >>>>> >>>>> So, How do you set up this benefit so that it makes sense for all >>>>> (Employer and Employee). >>>>> >>>>> There are a number of very effective ways to do this, rather than >>>>> the drastic options to convert Employees to Contractors... >>>>> >>>>> BTW, if you Talk to you Accountant, they will also tell you that >>>>> simply paying someone on a 1099 as a Contractor, does not make them >>>>> a contract employee.... There are other 'litmus' tests used to >>>>> determine the exact status, in-case someone challenges the status >>>>> quo. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Faisal Imtiaz >>>>> Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net >>>>> Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232 >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org >>>>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>>> On Behalf Of Travis Johnson >>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 11:06 PM >>>>> To: fai...@snappydsl.net; WISPA General List >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance >>>>> >>>>> Ahhhh... now we know.... it's Florida that is causing everyone >>>>> else's insurance rates to go up... :) >>>>> >>>>> We pay about $700/month to cover an entire family (this is just >>>>> health insurance, the dental and vision is extra). >>>>> >>>>> Travis >>>>> Microserv >>>>> >>>>> Faisal Imtiaz wrote: >>>>>> As a business owner, in Florida, where the Health Insurance is one >>>>>> of the highest in the US, we have seeing 15-20% increses every >>>>>> year for the last few years. >>>>>> >>>>>> It is nice to see that you offer 100% health insurance coverage >>>>>> for all of your Employees, where the company is picking up the Tab >>>>>> for the Insurance Premiums. >>>>>> >>>>>> Simply for the sake of my understanding, why would you choose to >>>>>> >>>>>> " force us to go to a subcontractor type work-force (at least for >>>>>> 5-10 of our current employees) to get us under the 25 employee >>>>>> limit >>>> and >>>>> ..... " >>>>>> offer less benefits for everyone in the company " >>>>>> >>>>>> At the end of the day, $412 / employee is not a whole lot of >>>>>> money, especially when you are talking about a benfit like Health >>>>> Insurance....... >>>>>> If you are looking to have some means of off-setting the >>>>>> additional $$$, would'nt it me easier and better for everyone if >>>>>> you reduced your Company provided 100% coverage to let's say 90%, >>>>>> and have the Employee pay the other 10% ? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> What are your current costs for Health Insurnace ? We are seeing >>>>> typically >>>>>> $300-$400 / month for a single male, and $1300-$1450 /month for a >>>>>> family >>>>>> >>>>>>> From what we have been seeing in the last few years, including >>>>>>> our present >>>>>> coverage increase (approx $8100/year for 3 families)... $412 /year >>>>>> increase would be a Blessing and a Christmas present... >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> Just a thought. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Faisal Imtiaz >>>>>> Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net >>>>>> Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232 >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org >>>>>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>>>> On Behalf Of Travis Johnson >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:50 PM >>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>> Subject: [WISPA] health insurance >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> What are everyone else's plans if this new health insurance plan >>>>>> gets passed in Congress? We fall in the 25-100 employee category, >>>>>> so they are estimating our health insurance costs would go up $412 >>>>>> per employee for us (we already cover 100% of the costs for our >>>>>> employees). So, basically this would force us to go to a >>>>>> subcontractor type work-force (at least for 5-10 of our current >>>>>> employees) to get us under the 25 employee limit and offer less >>>>>> benefits for everyone in the >>>>> company. >>>>>> >>>>>> Once again, it seems our government is stepping in where it >>>>>> doesn't >>>>> belong. >>>>>> Either take over the health care system 100% (including funding >>>>>> it), or leave it alone. >>>>>> >>>>>> Travis >>>>>> Microserv >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>> ---- >>>>>> ------ >>>>>> ---- >>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> - >>>>>> ------ >>>>>> ---- >>>>>> >>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>>> >>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>> >>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>> ---- >>>>>> ---------- >>>>>> WISPA Wants You! 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