Hi Rick, In the context of being an e-commerce merchant (e.g., someone who sells books, toys, things online), everything that you bank and Authorize.Net is telling you is true --> what's happening is that you are being lumped into the category of "card-not-present" credit card processing -- which is, not surprisingly, higher risk than "card-present" or "swiped" credit card processing.
As a result, there's an additional set of rules and regulations (and higher pricing) that applies to you Now, I think everyone here would agree that the business of being a WISP/ISP/Telco is fundamentally different than that of an e-commerce shop -- specifically, our business is all about recurring revenue Let's compare Service Provider that bills 1,000 customers $50 / month vs. E-commerce shop that sells 1,000 customers something for $50 / month Now, if you were to compare "risk" between the two -- as opposed to 100% card-not-present "risk" held by the E-commerce shop, the way to look at it from the service provider is that there's probably only 50 "risky" transactions (e.g., the new adds for the month), and the other 950 transactions were people that were billed the previous month (and probably have been customers for quite some time already). Now, for a facilities-based provider (as opposed to a web-hosting or dial-up company), the "risk" is further mitigated by evidence of a truck roll (which, if you think about it, makes for basically a "card-present" transaction) Taking these factors into account, Visa/Mastercard have created special programs for facilities-based providers For example: Mastercard - http://www.mastercard.com/us/merchant/solutions/incentive_program.html Billing Lost/Stolen/Expired Cards: Visa: http://www.visadps.com/services/visa_account_updater.html MasterCard: http://www.mastercard.com/us/wce/PDF/Billing%20Updater%20Brochure_10%2006.pdf What other benefits are available from being in these programs? 1. Specialized "telco" industry rates for consumer billing (depending on card type / mix -- it comes out to generally 10-25% cheaper than e-commerce / card-not-present transactions) 2. The ability to "legally" bill through expired cards for recurring payment purposes 3. The ability to "update" card records to account for lost, stolen, reissued and expired cards The "up-front" work (business process + software & systems integration) to getting "qualified" and "working within these programs is pretty extensive, and as a result, the 2,000 or so small-to-medium sized service providers have too many other things on their plate to deal with this (trust me, big guys like Comcast and Verizon take full advantage of these programs). What IP Pay has done is to invest ~2 years of R&D and systems to the tune of ~$750k to build out systems so that we can help guys like yourself take advantage of "preferential treatment" normally reserved for the "big guys." -Charles -----Original Message----- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 12:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Credit Card Processors Because once expired, Visa or Mastercard no longer must honor it. If a chargeback happens, they may consider using an expired card as fraudulent and deny your claim. This is just my more cautious nature coming out here. Maybe your processor says no big deal. For me, Authorize.net said dont do it. -RickG On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 10:22 PM, Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>wrote: > I've seen that before, but that wasn't what I was looking for. > > Either way, a charge back can happen no matter what - why would the > expiration be relevant? > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." > --- Albert Einstein > > > On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 10:08 PM, RickG <rgunder...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > My banker buddy said its between you and your credit card processor but > > charging to an expired card could leave you open to a charge back. I > guess > > the safest thing to do is ask your processor. I did find the attached on > > Visa's website. -RickG > > > > On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 9:42 PM, Josh Luthman > > <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>wrote: > > > > > Very confident that IPPay will accept past expiration dates as long > none > > of > > > the other information was changed. I read something about this > recently > > > but > > > I can't seem to locate it. > > > > > > Josh Luthman > > > Office: 937-552-2340 > > > Direct: 937-552-2343 > > > 1100 Wayne St > > > Suite 1337 > > > Troy, OH 45373 > > > > > > "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." > > > --- Albert Einstein > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 9:29 PM, RickG <rgunder...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > I'm speaking from experience :) > > > > Most credit cards expire in two years. So, you take their expiration > > date > > > > and add two years - wella, it works again! > > > > I dont know about other processors but authorize.net will not accept > > an > > > > expired date. > > > > -RickG > > > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Josh Luthman > > > > <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>wrote: > > > > > > > > > I don't see how you can guess it. You can have one card number not > > > > > change but renew it's expiration date. Also keep in mind you can > > > > > continue charging without updating information for companies just > > like > > > > > us. > > > > > > > > > > On 12/13/09, RickG <rgunder...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > Quickbooks is great! > > > > > > > > > > > > Question though: I was told by my bank not to guess their new > > > > expiration > > > > > > date and that you need to get the it directly from the customer > or > > > you > > > > > are > > > > > > subject to dispute. True of false? > > > > > > -RickG > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Tom DeReggi > > > > > > <wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> IPPay is really cool. Expecially automatic features like > figuring > > > out > > > > > the > > > > > >> right CC exp date after it expires. We'd like to use it, if we > > > could. > > > > > >> But we dont use them because you really need a seperate billing > > > system > > > > > to > > > > > >> integrate with them. > > > > > >> We use Quickbooks for our billing, and from what I understood > > IPPay > > > > does > > > > > >> not > > > > > >> integrate with Quickbook's billing. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> PS. I know, why are we using Quickbooks for billing still? > > Resistent > > > > to > > > > > >> change when something works, its easy, and no compelling reason > to > > > > > change. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Tom DeReggi > > > > > >> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > > > > > >> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > >> From: "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net> > > > > > >> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> > > > > > >> Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 11:16 PM > > > > > >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Credit Card Processors > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > IPPay. Only saved us $500 per month and we get our money in > 1-2 > > > > > business > > > > > >> > days (instead of 4-5 with authorize). :) :) > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Travis > > > > > >> > Microserv > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Robert West wrote: > > > > > >> >> Looking at credit card processors again. Been nickled and > > dimed > > > to > > > > > >> death > > > > > >> >> with 2 others. Who are you happy with and do they work with > > > > > >> >> authorize.net? > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> Bob- > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> Robert West > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> Just Micro Digital Services Inc. > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> 740-335-7020 > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > >> >> WISPA Wants You! 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Join today! > > > > > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > > > > > > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > > > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > > > > > > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Josh Luthman > > > > > Office: 937-552-2340 > > > > > Direct: 937-552-2343 > > > > > 1100 Wayne St > > > > > Suite 1337 > > > > > Troy, OH 45373 > > > > > > > > > > "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." > > > > > --- Albert Einstein > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > WISPA Wants You! 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