Powercode's MAXX does that...or so they say. I believe ImageStream says they can do this too.
Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 9:53 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote: > Having two routers talking to each other is not the same as a single > router with redundant parts. I can pull the CPU card from my Cisco and the > box never misses a single packet because the 2nd CPU card is in the same > box. Same with the route processor cards. Same with the power supplies. > > If you have two boxes doing VRRP, and BGP, if the power supply goes out of > a box, how long before the 2nd box could fully take over? 30 seconds? 60 > seconds? :( > > Travis > Microserv > > > > On 11/3/2010 6:26 PM, Scott Reed wrote: > > OK, elaborate on how 2 distinct identical boxes is not hardware > redundancy. I think by the definition of redundancy, it is 100%. Webster: > characterized > by similarity or repetition <a group of particularly *redundant* brick > buildings > > On 11/3/2010 6:45 PM, Blake Covarrubias wrote: > > Jeff, > > VXRs and down. Not GSR's and up. I wasn't entirely clear in my last message. > Like Travis I was also commenting about the Cisco GSR / 12000 platform. I'm > well aware of the performance of a Linux box compared to a VXR. We run a few > VXR routers in our network in addition to GSR's, BSD routers, and MikroTik. > > What you're describing really isn't true hardware redundancy. I'm also well > aware of BGP and its use in a multi-homed environment. We have two separate > GSRs acting as our edge routers. One in California, one in Arizona. Both > routers have multiple eBGP peers, and run iBGP between them. They're > connected by a series of licensed microwave radios with about 155mbps of > bandwidth between the two. We'll be supplementing that link with a dedicated > GigE fiber link in the coming months. > > I'm not sure what you're getting at regarding bridging between two > connections. There's no requirement to run a bridged network in order to > operate iBGP. > > I have no doubt Quagga works well in some BGP applications. We don't use it > because we have requirements for performance & uptime which a Linux/BSD box > cannot currently meet. We provide voice (TDM) and data services for companies > in various industries such as mining, manufacturing, aerospace, defense, > energy, cellular, and even other ISPs. We literally cannot afford to wrestle > with the issues others on this list experience. If its not reliable we > replace it. We don't have a problem paying for reliability. > > -- > Blake Covarrubias > > On Nov 3, 2010, at 1:16 PM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote: > > > Hi Blake, > > I’m not sure what sort of speeds you think Linux limits out at, but I believe > you might be surprised at how much throughput you can get. We generally blow > the doors off of the VXRs and down. > > There are two different ways of getting hardware redundancy. One is with a > massively expensive single box, like the Cisco. The other is to set up > redundant hardware…which is particularly good in a BGP application. You can > have a relatively inexpensive router on each circuit, set up iBGP and VRRP > between the boxes, and BGP between the peers. That way, if you lose > anything, all the in and outbound traffic fails to the other unit(s). This > also allows for geographic separation of the routers. If you can bridge > between the routers, you can have them in completely different locations…thus > keeping your network running if something really nasty happens. > > I can’t speak for the other companies, but ImageStream has been handling BGP > for around 10 years. We use Quagga currently and we’ve found it to be very > stable, as our customers on-list have attested. It’s one of our top > applications. > > Regards, > > Jeff > ImageStream > 800-813-5123 x106 > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org > <wireless-boun...@wispa.org>] On Behalf Of Blake Covarrubias > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 11:31 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS > > Hardware redundancy, wire speed packet forwarding, support for more Interface > types, and more widely tested & stable software. > > I'll use a MikroTik, Linux, or BSD box as an aggregation router any day; > terminate some VLANs, act as an MPLS CE, perform QoS marking, and participate > in an OSPF area. Probably nothing more. The level of hardware redundancy & > wire-speed forwarding isn't there for my needs. > > If you're just knocking IOS, I realize it isn't the wave of the future. Cisco > does too & has developed IOS XR. > > Linux, MikroTik, and I'm sure Vyatta & ImageStream are great platforms. They > compete well with Cisco in some areas...others not so much. Use what's > appropriate. > > -- > Blake Covarrubias > > On Nov 3, 2010, at 8:04, "Jeff Broadwick - Lists" <jeffl...@att.net> > <jeffl...@att.net> wrote: > > > I’m curious Travis…not looking for an argument. > > What specifically do you think is superior in IOS (Unix-based originally) to > a hardened, purpose-built Linux distro (us, Mikrotik, Vyatta, whatever)? > > Regards, > > Jeff > ImageStream > 800-813-5123 x106 > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org > <wireless-boun...@wispa.org>] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson > Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 11:37 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS > > Tom, > > I agree that Linux works very well as a router, but it still doesn't > compare to a dedicated hardware platform (like Cisco) that was built > from the ground up to do nothing but routing. We purchased a used Cisco > 12008 router about 1.5 years ago off ebay. They are very, very cheap... > the only downside is they are BIG and require 240VAC. But it's way cool > to pull the CPU card while the router is moving 500Mbps of traffic and > have it not even miss a single ping (due to the redundant CPU card). > Same goes for the route fabric card. ;) > > We use Mikrotik for our inside "core" router and this big Cisco for our > border router to our BGP upstreams. I have slept very well for the last > 1.5 years knowing everything in the box is fully redundant (CPU, route, > power, etc.). :) > > Travis > Microserv > > > On 11/2/2010 9:04 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: > > Note: Quagga has been very reliable for quite some time now. Imagestream and > Vyatta both use Quagga. Both are great choices for BGP routers. > > I personally use Mandrake (Mandriva) Linux with a slew of custom > modifications that we have made, loaded on SuperMicro, and then use latest > Quagga. > That has worked well for us, the last 5 years. (although, I dont recommend > that to someone, until they are vastly familiar with their distro of Linux. > Last thing you want to do is use your BGP router for a Guinee Pig Science > project, rebooting it all the time to test script changes.) But once you are > comfortable with your Distro, it works well. > > There are a million arguements "for" and "against" Cisco versus Linux, to be > used for the ISPs' average NOC/POP router/switch. I dont dispute any of the > arguements. But one area where I believe Linux stands tall, is as a CORE BGP > router. A core BGP router can be one of the more simplistic configured > routers because it only really needs to perform one function, BGP routing to > its connected peers. For BGP there are two critical needs.... Fast > processors and Lots of RAM. In todays world there is no excuse to not have > both of those. The problem with Cisco is that it lacks both, unless you pay > big bucks. Linux on the other hand has an abundance of both, when combined > with PC-Like hardware. > > I laugh at my competitors, when they say, "oh no, BGP reset, had to reload > BGP tables, now there is latency for like 3 minutes or compromised routing > for that period" or "got a route problem, the small prefixes aren't in my > tables". . On Linux, if you want to restart BGP, well thats like 1 second to > reload tables. And no need to drop any routes, unless you want to. You could > have Full routes with like 30 peers from a single router, if you wanted to. > You can load up Linux with like 32 NICs (qty8 4port GIG NICs) in a 2U case, > if you want to, and dont even need a Switch. (Although new will cost you > about $430 per 4port PCI-E Gig NIC). > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL& Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kristian Hoffmann"<kh...@fire2wire.com> <kh...@fire2wire.com> > To: "WISPA General List"<wireless@wispa.org> <wireless@wispa.org> > Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 8:37 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS > > > > On Tue, 2010-11-02 at 18:52 -0500, Scott Lambert wrote: > > > I still need to try a Vyatta system. > > I loathe the idea of managing a *nix distro on a router (which is why we > use RouterOS now). Apparently I've had too much Tik-aid, because I had > completely forgotten about Vyatta and similar options. > > I have a SuperMicro 5015A-H (Atom 330 dual-core) coming in tomorrow. > I'm going to try RouterOS and Vyatta and see how BGP responds on each > with a single feed. If anyone else has an x86-based distro they'd like > to see performance on, let me know. > > And thanks for all the responses. The information has been very > helpful. Unfortunately, the conclusion I came to is "I have no idea > what I'm going to do." Cisco = $$$ and MikroTik = coin flip. Hopefully > Vyatta lands somewhere in the middle. > > Thanks, > > -Kristian > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WISPA Wants You! 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