On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 11:56:11AM -0800, Charles N Wyble wrote: > Let's get some data around this. How many WISPS here have tried to peer? > With whom? On what terms? I know Akamai has traffic commits. Do the > other players? Let's start some open dialog and as an industry leverage > our collective bargaining power to peer. Generic hand waving and saying > "big boys won't let us in the sandbox" doesn't work for me as an > operator. I like specifics.
I've peered in the past with an ISP because we both were part of a statewide frame relay network and it was just the cost of a PVC to do it. The current impediments to small ISPs peering are: 1. BGP skills and hardware. It used to be the only reliable thing for BGP was a big cisco decked out with overpriced ram. Now anyone can do BGP private peering with a PC running MT/vyatta/linux or an MT routerboard, or their cisco or their juniper. Still, few have BGP experience to do this comfortably. You can get the talent in socal, but it's not nationwide. People could hire Butch or someone on guru.com to setup bgp, but they like to have the self sufficiency to DIY in many cases. I've probably met face to face all the people in my state who are proven BGP skillful and it's not a lot. 2. very high speed links between ISPs. Chances are ISPs with somewhat overlapping service areas don't have core network speeds all the way to each other's edge, and a peering connection would then be slower than just using your uplink. Getting these super high speed and reliable connections between WISPs is doable, but not cheap in all situations. If you were in the same city, yes, it could be very cost efficient. Arra middle-mile projects, friendly clecs, or cheap backhaul radios could change this. For example, Maine will have a 3-ring-binder fiber network where most of the ISPs or their upstream will connect to it. They will then be able to connect to each other with extreme speeds exceeding their uplinks. 3. decreasing uplink costs. Used to be you'd do anything to save a precious megabit and peering was one such thing. I had a satellite receiver system for receive usenet to offload the bandwidth back in 97ish. Now it's just outsourced. We used to cache a lot more web traffic too. Now it's helpful but not so important. If there were an occasional megabit of traffic going to another local ISP, I wouldn't really consider it worth the effort of peering. I would suspect most of the traffic between WISPs is email and a little random p2p, and perhaps some vpn activity between employees and businesses that use different service providers. The peers despite the extreme minimalist financial investment should be more reliable than the uplink to make good sense as well. > That's something I'm hoping to do with socalwifi.net. I want to create a > WISP friendly carrier. Peer with me over a private AS and I'll peer with > all the other guys at various interconnection points. Or something like > that. I'm working with some top tier networking talent here in the > southland to build out the infrastructure. > > In short I'm building my own middle mile. Of course the socal area is > full of carrier neutral interconnection points with wireless meet me > rooms. Other areas of the country not so much. > > > > > > > Dont misunderstand me, I do not mean to stereo type and I am not saying for > > sure that NetFlix or any content provider aren't willing to peer or talk > > about fair terms. I'm just saying, who's in control of whether it will > > occur? > > Simple. The eyeball network and the content provider. Not the feds. Not > the FCC. A direct 1 to 1 relationship (or an open peering fabric). > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ > > iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJNCm7bAAoJEMvvG/TyLEAtf7MP/R62xrf3a1v/G+mQMCzrA3xi > HvbUg7OglDal1JvqFvSrEnIxvq6gmwlrII+XABVo/dlKIGkX9tx6OA8Ni0IOftrn > hp6ba5tVdN3nSmkBCKhIK7BpaABHfYDmYlVnGLP7GCweBWClODGK6v0tSUmam//d > oXFRtInH7XX+fNC0OQpFPWCJE5TLDRi54Py1Usui+2uYMvyNM1FvqzIgIgJwfgBb > gTKRqI+cAzCWch3AlLbdxJhNcNEj4FLo+Fqi8IqNSOB7PbH28hF6Xt7MnuNnvFN8 > LmEvHfilhVX2uH908zhvmk93UaJxI1b3SlOnGvstbN/FxBHOpTxjIJhzLyEoD1eO > 3muxK9pI7n+XmetTbamBrNVPMGa3S55x8dDCpZiCe2raPukhbiYGEWPRYvslK3/D > 1yc2KxZI7Oj7hG88qin9hIqjWOt1I/aoAAGezv0N1Rt/y0oRpP8jubNev+clMcB0 > xQzoft8oibP1M+j3J8YvTcYG8fST889MpIrzNCDpKT2NDhpv9XKYDxL+uUvSwf+n > Ar10XzASgyle4Ao+z+aIru4rUk44gdGeswbyWhGleAxz7GG+ZlE0NfqA5A6nKH5e > JtE2lo+HiE9xDzzOmVVGWy68xHtLYjodQZOM8e0RfolIbtbNCBWUxWBc3PyRuCjv > si2j+0ooCeAvT5ZIXe0o > =TldW > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WISPA Wants You! 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