See I told you Scott would reply. (this only means that he has been with SOAP since the beginning).
Scott, I apologize for trying to put you in a position where your expertise has already been reimbursed for monetarily. Secondly, I will look at the examples, although some think as I do, when Steve Jobs was at the last Mac World, and he said, "Does anyone really know what "DOT NET" is?" I am not for sure about DOT NET, but I do think that getting on the SOAP band wagon, will in turn, allow one to get on the DOT NET wagon as well. I am not that concerned as missing the DOT NET train here at the beginning on the Beta 2 caboose, but, I do want to make sure that I dont' miss out on the SOAP wagon. Thanks again Scott, your detailed explainations are very appreciated by me if not by many more on this list. Thanks Steeve On 4/4/03 10:54 AM, "Scott Cadillac" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Steve, and Christian. > > To be honest, I was curious to see who else might respond to this first :-) > > I can well imagine that SOAP is on a "to-do" list for Phil, which would one > of many items I'm sure. Witango is not 100% SOAP ready - but you can get > pretty darn close. > > Yes, I've implemented SOAP in a number of "custom" applications now, and > learned a lot in the process. > > .................... > ~ There are two kinds of SOAP you can code for: Dynamic SOAP calls (true > SOAP) or SOAP where the "definitions" don't change. Witango can do the > later. > > .................... > ~ The standards for SOAP are still evolving and it's pretty hard to code a > moving target - a challenge for even the biggest software companies. i.e., > IBM, MS, Sun, etc... > > .................... > ~ True SOAP allows for automated interaction (calls) between two Services, > where the properties and arguments of those Services can change > dynamically - this is what WSDL is for. WSDL "describes" conditions and > argument requirements for a Service you are calling. The WSDL has to be > retrieved and processed before you can make the actual Service "call" so > that the calling Service knows how to call the Service - follow me? > > Here is a very, very simple example of WSDL: > > http://xml-extra.net/system-services.asmx?wsdl > > This is where most of the Standards changes are happening, at this dynamic > level. If SOAP is going to dominate the World, it is because of the success > at the WSDL level - which is supposed to translate into "ease of use" for > programmers. > > Unfortunately Witango does not have a native parser for SOAP, so Witango > can't process the WSDL information - you have to do this part yourself. > > Leaving 3rd Party SOAP Products aside for the moment, this brings us to the > other kind of SOAP. > > .................... > ~ Witango can do SOAP, if the WSDL information is not being changed > dynamically to a large degree. Then you can read in the WSDL XML and use > Witango DOM and XPointer to extract some key bits of information, such as > the names of the available Methods to call, and their Parameter > "introspection" information and the address of the actual Service. > > Based on the information you extract, then you can make "some" assumptions > about what to do with your actual Service call. If you want to write a > bigger boat-load of code, then you can compensate for the WSDL being more > dynamic, but just getting to this point at a basic level is already a large > amount of code. > > Without getting too carried away (not that I have already) with a few more > issues such as XML over HTTP, DOM (which are the easy parts) and all the > rest - I just want to say SOAP is possible in Witango, but it's not easy. > > I'm sure at some point Phil may implement a SOAP Client / Publisher in the > Witango Editor - but I'm not privy to his plans, so I don't have any > information for you. > > > But, if we DID have a SOAP Client for Witango, you would be amazed at what > we could do :-) > > .................... > Don't loose hope yet, because you still have 3rd Party Products. > > On Windows, MSXML can give you some basic SOAP like functionality, which is > free. But Microsoft also offers the "SOAP Toolkit", which is also free: > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/nhp/Default.asp?contentid > =28000523 > (Above URL may word-wrap) > > The SOAP Toolkit makes many things much easier (i.e., WSDL), but makes other > parts harder. But this will get you the closest to the current Standards, > which is important. > > Other SOAP add-on tools are available for other platforms as well: > http://www.soapware.org/directory/4/implementations > > Ultimately what we need is a SOAP Client and/or Publisher for Witango. > Something like the "Search Builder", but writes pure Witango files and > outwardly operates like any other SOAP Service and where the files can move > transparently between other platforms like normal Witango files. > > I have to tell you, I know it's possible, but it'll be alot of work for > somebody to create a "SOAP Builder" :-) > > .................... > Anyway, to get back to Steve's question about sharing some code. > > I have some code, but because each implementation has been custom to some > degree (because of the issue of the dynamic WSDL), it may raise more > questions than the solutions you are looking for. Just try checking out my > Witango XML-RPC stuff, which is the predecessor to SOAP. > > http://xml-extra.net/webpage.xmlx?node=52 > > Plus I need to add that some members of the List have paid for some of my > SOAP work, and it wouldn't be fair to them to just start giving some of it > away. > > But, the knowledge I have gained from each of these experiences is another > matter. SOAP is not for the faint-of-heart, but it will get easier as time > goes by, I promise you. > > If some of you are interested, we could make SOAP a topic for some special > training. > > --------- > Anyway, I think I've babbled long enough. I hope this answer some people's > questions about the topic - or have I just confused you guys more? > > One thing is for sure, I know Phil will be working some late evenings and > weekends for awhile yet - poor guy :-} > > In the meantime, here are some educational links of interest: > > http://www.w3schools.com/wsdl/default.asp > > http://www.w3schools.com/soap/default.asp > > > Cheers............ > > Scott Cadillac, > Witango.org - http://witango.org > 403-281-6090 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- > Information for the Witango Developer Community > --------------------- > > XML-Extranet - http://xml-extra.net > 403-281-6090 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- > Well-formed Development (for hire) > --------------------- > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Campbell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 8:08 AM > Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: SOAP > > >> You know, I would think Scott will reply to this, but, I am really curious >> as to how many people here are using SOAP and if there are some,if they >> would be so kind as to share some code as to how it's being used with > their >> applications. (tafs) >> >> Thanks >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> On 4/3/03 9:34 PM, "Christian Platt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: >> >>> Hi list, how far is WITANGO supporting SOAP >>> >>> Christian >>> >>> >>> ________________________________________________________________________ >>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body >> > > ________________________________________________________________________ > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body ________________________________________________________________________ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body
