Mark, Well said.
It has been a mystery for years now why communication or lack of it continues.
In the meantime I am still using and making money from 5.5 and on windows it works fine.
I will wait to see if 6 arrives and the open source promise is there. I have hopes that someday the IDE will handle PHP.
In the meantime I find this to be a valuable list of mostly professional and responsible people and hope in continues on.
Dan -- Dan Stein FileMaker 7 Certified Developer FileMaker 9 Certified Developer Digital Software Solutions 799 Evergreen Circle Telford PA 18969 Land: 215-799-0192 Cell: 610-256-2843 Fax 215-799-0192 ( Call 1st) FMP, WiTango, EDI,SQL 2000, MySQL, CWP [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.dss-db.com "I destroy my enemies when I make them my friends." Abraham Lincoln On Oct 21, 2008, at 2:57 AM, Mark Hawk Weiss wrote:
Nothing we say will smoke them out, or change their course.One thing I have learned is that many people respond to pressure and challenges by using the tools they have. Some people understand that part of their tool box is other people. Some leaders NEVER learn that lesson, never see others as part of the solution. All along the way, the resources of this group were at their disposal. They chose not to use those resources. This happens all the time. In tons of businesses, heck in marriages. My wife has poor night vision driving, and freaks out, not because I am a poor driver, but because of what she can't see. Her limitation on that point, becomes my challenge, even my limitation, if you know what I mean.Ill-formed and complex problems come up all the time in business. Such are the problems Phil faces. He could have involved others, collaboratively, to solve those problems, share the load, but has a personality or mind set, that isn't open to that. That is clear. It is also clear that isn't going to change soon. He isn't going to say, "Hey, sorry I didn't reach out, have a few sign non-competes/ disclosure or whatever and get this done for all of us." Not in the cards. Not in the personality. So just face it and accept it. He is still an ok guy for sure. Just not a viable business partner that I can tell.There are several legal options that open the way for a collective effort. Heaven knows, there have been many on the list who would have helped, and have shown by their actions over the years to be great great resources. No matter what you say, you can't force them to be collaborative or give up control or give up the credit or trust others who are better than them in some things. That is a choice they need to make willingly.I have a relative like that. Absolutely no communication. Nothing you can do, until he needs something, and then afterwards he is back into his cave. I left a company and lost 6 figures to that kind of behavior. Nothing could be done. Nothing.Sylvia Ashton Warner, an educator in New Zealand said, "Behavior has it's reasons." It always does. Being clueless about them, and having an unwilling partner, destroys trust. And trust is at the center of all successful human relationships.So here is where I think we are at.Someday perhaps a product will be released and and version of open source of some flavor. At that point, it will be as if this product had never existed. It will be a new product and a new idea and a new approach. Phil will then start over and build a new group of users from scratch. People who are new to the web development world, and don't have any of the history or baggage we all do for the most part, will form his new business model, and slowly if at all, he will have support again. Some of us might consider it if we see a viable model.Then each of us will have to decide if this "new product" is worth taking a look at.In the mean time, for me, it hurts in a personal way, to be treated like this. I mean it cuts to the heart. Many comments of others on the list reflect that hurt as well. I really know how this kind of abuse hurts. Such hurt is often really deep.I don't think any of us will ever understand how someone can care so little about others, or care so much about themselves, to treat others in such a wasteful and abusive way when help was all around them.Everyone says how nice and well meaning the Witango folks are. Perhaps in their own way or in their own minds. In any commercial sense, they are not well meaning. However personable I think Phil is and he has been nice to me the few times I have interacted, they are not nice in a commercial sense. We can have a cup of hot cocoa no problem. but commercial trust takes a long time to develop and for most that is long gone.I have this son, he gets three tickets, crunches a car and comes to me Friday night and says, "Dad, I want to borrow the car." I respond, "Son, we have the love thing going. I will always love you and be on your side. I am in your corner. What we don't have going right now is the trust thing. You don't have to work for my love, but we all have to work for trust. In a few months after things settle down, perhaps we can the trust thing going again. For now, nope, you don't get the car. Sorry." The personal regard for Phil is there. It's the trust thing.However, given this hand we have been dealt, we all now can choose. Play by Phil's rules or Not. If we choose to play by his rules, then shut up. If we choose not to then move on and remember the good times.Pals forever, Mark Weiss On Oct 20, 2008, at 9:21 PM, Tom Ferguson wrote:And why do I find it funny that I get e-Mail to Phil and Sophie returned as"Undeliverable". Guess they have bailed too.-----Original Message----- From: Tom Ferguson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 10:09 To: witango-talk@witango.com Subject: RE: Witango-Talk: Open Letter to Phil and Sophie I find it curious that no one from WiTango has responded to this thread. I think that speaks volumes. Tango is dead. That sucks.-----Original Message----- From: Rick Sanders [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 11:33 To: witango-talk@witango.com Subject: RE: Witango-Talk: Open Letter to Phil and Sophie Hey Webdude, I'd check out Cold Fusion. It's a pretty easy transitionfrom WiTango.Taf = cfm Tcf = cfc Best of all, you develop in Dreamweaver. The Cold Fusionapp server isfree for development. Best of all, you can develop on a Macand use aPC as the CF server. Rick Sanders Webenergy Canada: 902-431-7279 USA: 919-799-9076 Canada: www.webenergy.ca USA: www.webenergyusa.com -----Original Message----- From: WebDude [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: October-20-08 12:42 PM To: witango-talk@witango.com Subject: RE: Witango-Talk: Open Letter to Phil and Sophie Hello all, Well, I have a problem and maybe some of you could help me. I have been using nothing but Tango and Witango since I started developing many years ago. Started on Mac with Butler and eventually moved to Windows. Witango is all I have ever used and now I am in aquandry. Isee the writing is on the wall and though I have resisted for many years, it seems that I am going to have to take the plungeand figureout what to do for what I have that already exists and forthe future.The problem is that I am so comfortable with what I havethat movingis going to take a lot of effort. I have been going through the different options out there and I am so confused as to editors, parsers, etc. that I really do not know which direction to turn. I have a very small smattering of ASP which I hacked in orderto get asite that was moved to our servers to work, but that is theonly otherlanguage that I even attempted to try. The real crux of theproblem isthat everything out there looks very confusing and so farremoved fromwhat I currently have. I am fairly adept in SQL, Witango,HTML and CSSbut I have never taken the time to learn anything new. I downloaded some PHP editors, some sample ASP stuff, andto tell youthe truth, I just don't get a lot of it. Is there anythingout therethat gives as visual of an interface as Witango? Or maybeis there aspecific place you can go to relearn the logic that it will take to use any of the tools available? I think PHP is probably theplace tostart, but I am totally confused as to how to go about it. I would prefer to continue using IIS as I am very familiar with italong withthe security. I went to the PHP site and it seems thatthere are pagesupon pages of just the install for IIS. Or, how about editors? Are there any that you would recommend? Keep in mind my Witango background. I never went to schoolfor any ofthis stuff and I have some pretty complicated things running on my sites from forums to streaming PDFs, data access managementsystems toe-commerce. This is going to be tough, but I need to take it one stepat a time...<html> <head> <title>PHP Test</title> </head> <body> <?php echo '<p>Hello World</p>'; ?> </body> </html> WebDude ______________________________________________________________ __________ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf ______________________________________________________________ __________ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf______________________________________________________________ __________ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf________________________________________________________________________ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.tafMark Weiss http://trustthechildren.blogspot.com ________________________________________________________________________ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
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