Hey Ben, It's too bad that Phil needs to use Mikal to relay his messages. I think what we're looking for is an official announcement on this list or their website (which hasn't been updated in years).
I don't think we're looking for a shred of hope, or some grapevine news. I believe we deserve to hear something concrete and definitive in the WiTango community. Rick Sanders Webenergy Canada: 902-431-7279 USA: 919-799-9076 Canada: www.webenergy.ca USA: www.webenergyusa.com -----Original Message----- From: Ben Johansen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: October-23-08 3:12 AM To: witango-talk@witango.com Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: Open Letter to Phil and Sophie Hey Rick did you read Mikal's Post of email from Phil. Looks like With is fine, and 6 has some things that are taking longer. The real issue here is lack of communication from With, which has lead to a lot of frustration. Tom just voiced his frustration, albeit crude, but probably what a lot would have like to have said ;-) To the people at With this list is taken as the official venue for communications from you. the onus is on you to keep the customers informed, and not the other way around. If you don't want to see more people leave, it would be in your best interest to put a liaison on the list to quill the masses :-) Here is hoping for version 6 soon and better list communication On Oct 21, 2008, at 1:13 PM, Rick Sanders wrote: > Now that's a little too harsh. I doubt that they made alot of money > from > WiTango. > > As for it being the best commercial product, not anymore it's not. > Cold > Fusion & ASP.net have many more features than WiTango 5.5 has and > can do > quite a bit more right out of the box. WiTango was the best for > awhile, but > it wasn't marketed at all which led to its demise. With had to be on > top of > the web development world, features, surveys, and R&D up the ying- > yang. That > costs alot of money just to research technology. Then you have to > develop > it, test it, package it, and sell it. Then marketing and advertising > comes > into play. Sometimes, you just run out of money! Sometimes you sit > back, > look at something and realize you can't make it work regardless how > much > effort and time you put into something. There comes a time where you > have to > cut your losses and run. Looks like WiTango did that. > > Rick Sanders > Webenergy > Canada: 902-431-7279 > USA: 919-799-9076 > Canada: www.webenergy.ca > USA: www.webenergyusa.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Ferguson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: October-21-08 6:41 AM > To: witango-talk@witango.com > Subject: RE: Witango-Talk: Open Letter to Phil and Sophie > > Bravo? > > These low-life skanks have played on each and every one of us for > their own > commercial gain and have taken the best commercial product in this > particular niche and run it into the ground. > > I have no sympathy at all for these ass-clowns. > > May Phil and Sophie rot in hell. Fuck 'em, and anyone else who > sympathizes > with them. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Mikal Anderson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 02:18 >> To: witango-talk@witango.com >> Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: Open Letter to Phil and Sophie >> >> Wonderfully expressed, Mark. Thanks x 10,000. >> >> Mikal Anderson >> Developer from Tango Days >> >> >> On 10/20/2008 11:57 PM, Mark "Hawk" Weiss wrote: >>> Nothing we say will smoke them out, or change their course. >>> >>> One thing I have learned is that many people respond to >> pressure and >>> challenges by using the tools they have. Some people >> understand that >>> part of their tool box is other people. Some leaders NEVER >> learn that >>> lesson, never see others as part of the solution. All along >> the way, >>> the resources of this group were at their disposal. They >> chose not to >>> use those resources. This happens all the time. In tons of >> businesses, >>> heck in marriages. My wife has poor night vision driving, >> and freaks >>> out, not because I am a poor driver, but because of what she can't >>> see. Her limitation on that point, becomes my challenge, even my >>> limitation, if you know what I mean. >>> >>> Ill-formed and complex problems come up all the time in >> business. Such >>> are the problems Phil faces. He could have involved others, >>> collaboratively, to solve those problems, share the load, >> but has a >>> personality or mind set, that isn't open to that. That is >> clear. It is >>> also clear that isn't going to change soon. He isn't going to say, >>> "Hey, sorry I didn't reach out, have a few sign >>> non-competes/disclosure or whatever and get this done for >> all of us." >>> Not in the cards. Not in the personality. So just face it >> and accept >>> it. He is still an ok guy for sure. Just not a viable >> business partner >>> that I can tell. >>> >>> There are several legal options that open the way for a collective >>> effort. Heaven knows, there have been many on the list who >> would have >>> helped, and have shown by their actions over the years to be great >>> great resources. No matter what you say, you can't force them to be >>> collaborative or give up control or give up the credit or >> trust others >>> who are better than them in some things. That is a choice >> they need to >>> make willingly. >>> >>> I have a relative like that. Absolutely no communication. >> Nothing you >>> can do, until he needs something, and then afterwards he is >> back into >>> his cave. I left a company and lost 6 figures to that kind of >>> behavior. Nothing could be done. Nothing. >>> >>> Sylvia Ashton Warner, an educator in New Zealand said, >> "Behavior has >>> it's reasons." It always does. Being clueless about them, >> and having >>> an unwilling partner, destroys trust. And trust is at the center of >>> all successful human relationships. >>> >>> So here is where I think we are at. >>> >>> Someday perhaps a product will be released and and version of open >>> source of some flavor. At that point, it will be as if this product >>> had never existed. It will be a new product and a new idea >> and a new >>> approach. Phil will then start over and build a new group of users >>> from scratch. People who are new to the web development world, and >>> don't have any of the history or baggage we all do for the >> most part, >>> will form his new business model, and slowly if at all, he >> will have >>> support again. Some of us might consider it if we see a >> viable model. >>> >>> Then each of us will have to decide if this "new product" is worth >>> taking a look at. >>> >>> In the mean time, for me, it hurts in a personal way, to be treated >>> like this. I mean it cuts to the heart. Many comments of >> others on the >>> list reflect that hurt as well. I really know how this >> kind of abuse >>> hurts. Such hurt is often really deep. >>> >>> I don't think any of us will ever understand how someone >> can care so >>> little about others, or care so much about themselves, to >> treat others >>> in such a wasteful and abusive way when help was all around them. >>> >>> Everyone says how nice and well meaning the Witango folks >> are. Perhaps >>> in their own way or in their own minds. In any commercial >> sense, they >>> are not well meaning. However personable I think Phil is >> and he has >>> been nice to me the few times I have interacted, they are >> not nice in >>> a commercial sense. We can have a cup of hot cocoa no problem. but >>> commercial trust takes a long time to develop and for most that is >>> long gone. >>> >>> I have this son, he gets three tickets, crunches a car and >> comes to me >>> Friday night and says, "Dad, I want to borrow the car." I respond, >>> "Son, we have the love thing going. I will always love you >> and be on >>> your side. I am in your corner. What we don't have going >> right now is >>> the trust thing. You don't have to work for my love, but we >> all have >>> to work for trust. In a few months after things settle >> down, perhaps >>> we can the trust thing going again. For now, nope, you >> don't get the >>> car. Sorry." The personal regard for Phil is there. It's >> the trust thing. >>> >>> However, given this hand we have been dealt, we all now can choose. >>> Play by Phil's rules or Not. If we choose to play by his >> rules, then >>> shut up. If we choose not to then move on and remember the >> good times. >>> >>> Pals forever, >>> >>> Mark Weiss >>> >>> >>> On Oct 20, 2008, at 9:21 PM, Tom Ferguson wrote: >>> >>>> And why do I find it funny that I get e-Mail to Phil and Sophie >>>> returned as "Undeliverable". >>>> >>>> Guess they have bailed too. >>>> >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Tom Ferguson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 10:09 >>>>> To: witango-talk@witango.com >>>>> Subject: RE: Witango-Talk: Open Letter to Phil and Sophie >>>>> >>>>> I find it curious that no one from WiTango has responded to this >>>>> thread. >>>>> >>>>> I think that speaks volumes. >>>>> >>>>> Tango is dead. That sucks. >>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Rick Sanders [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 11:33 >>>>>> To: witango-talk@witango.com >>>>>> Subject: RE: Witango-Talk: Open Letter to Phil and Sophie >>>>>> >>>>>> Hey Webdude, >>>>>> >>>>>> I'd check out Cold Fusion. It's a pretty easy transition >>>>> from WiTango. >>>>>> >>>>>> Taf = cfm >>>>>> Tcf = cfc >>>>>> >>>>>> Best of all, you develop in Dreamweaver. The Cold Fusion >>>>> app server is >>>>>> free for development. Best of all, you can develop on a Mac >>>>> and use a >>>>>> PC as the CF server. >>>>>> >>>>>> Rick Sanders >>>>>> Webenergy >>>>>> Canada: 902-431-7279 >>>>>> USA: 919-799-9076 >>>>>> Canada: www.webenergy.ca >>>>>> USA: www.webenergyusa.com >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: WebDude [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>> Sent: October-20-08 12:42 PM >>>>>> To: witango-talk@witango.com >>>>>> Subject: RE: Witango-Talk: Open Letter to Phil and Sophie >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello all, >>>>>> >>>>>> Well, I have a problem and maybe some of you could help >> me. I have >>>>>> been using nothing but Tango and Witango since I started >> developing >>>>>> many years ago. Started on Mac with Butler and >> eventually moved to >>>>>> Windows. Witango is all I have ever used and now I am in a >>>>> quandry. I >>>>>> see the writing is on the wall and though I have >> resisted for many >>>>>> years, it seems that I am going to have to take the plunge >>>>> and figure >>>>>> out what to do for what I have that already exists and for >>>>> the future. >>>>>> The problem is that I am so comfortable with what I have >>>>> that moving >>>>>> is going to take a lot of effort. I have been going through the >>>>>> different options out there and I am so confused as to editors, >>>>>> parsers, etc. that I really do not know which direction >> to turn. I >>>>>> have a very small smattering of ASP which I hacked in order >>>>> to get a >>>>>> site that was moved to our servers to work, but that is the >>>>> only other >>>>>> language that I even attempted to try. The real crux of the >>>>> problem is >>>>>> that everything out there looks very confusing and so far >>>>> removed from >>>>>> what I currently have. I am fairly adept in SQL, Witango, >>>>> HTML and CSS >>>>>> but I have never taken the time to learn anything new. >>>>>> >>>>>> I downloaded some PHP editors, some sample ASP stuff, and >>>>> to tell you >>>>>> the truth, I just don't get a lot of it. Is there anything >>>>> out there >>>>>> that gives as visual of an interface as Witango? Or maybe >>>>> is there a >>>>>> specific place you can go to relearn the logic that it >> will take to >>>>>> use any of the tools available? I think PHP is probably the >>>>> place to >>>>>> start, but I am totally confused as to how to go about >> it. I would >>>>>> prefer to continue using IIS as I am very familiar with it >>>>> along with >>>>>> the security. I went to the PHP site and it seems that >>>>> there are pages >>>>>> upon pages of just the install for IIS. Or, how about >> editors? Are >>>>>> there any that you would recommend? >>>>>> Keep in mind my Witango background. I never went to school >>>>> for any of >>>>>> this stuff and I have some pretty complicated things >> running on my >>>>>> sites from forums to streaming PDFs, data access management >>>>> systems to >>>>>> e-commerce. >>>>>> >>>>>> This is going to be tough, but I need to take it one step >>>>> at a time... >>>>>> >>>>>> <html> >>>>>> <head> >>>>>> <title>PHP Test</title> >>>>>> </head> >>>>>> <body> >>>>>> <?php echo '<p>Hello World</p>'; ?> </body> </html> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> WebDude >>>>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>>>> __________ >>>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to >> http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>>>> __________ >>>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to >> http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf >>>>>> >>>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>>> __________ >>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to >> http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf >>>>> >>>> >> _____________________________________________________________________ >>>> ___ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to >>>> http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf >>>> >>> >>> Mark Weiss >>> http://trustthechildren.blogspot.com >>> >>> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >>> __ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to >> http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf >>> >>> >>> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> __________ >> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf >> > ________________________________________________________________________ > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf > > Ben Johansen http://www.webspinr.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: 360-597-3372 Mobile: 360-600-7775 ________________________________________________________________________ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf ________________________________________________________________________ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
