Cde Vusi Your analogy makes sense if the system was always that objective and consistent. However as I alluded before, we have people with “pettier” crimes who are sitting in jail because they were not granted bail. I am using pettier for the lack of a better word. That is why I said that it seems as if it sometimes depends on who you are, who you know etc. I of course hope I am wrong on this perception, which a lot of people share it is the case. Once more “a lot” of people was not scientifically determined and not based on empirical evidence, but purely based on general discussions in the community. Obviously I wouldn’t want to list too many examples that entrench the above-mentioned perceptions without having the details of the cases and also without being too laborious on this issue. Even more suspicious is that the chief prosecutor was reassigned and supposedly demoted after going ahead with opposing bail, having ignored a verbal instruction. Yes verbal instructions are passed everyday, however we all sometimes insist on written instructions from our principals where we feel that the instruction might have dire consequences on our integrity etc.
Thanks for talking to the issue and not hurling insults and personal attacks, lately in our country we seem to lack this kind of maturity and objectivity when we talk to issues. Regards, Tumelo G. From: "Vusi Makamu (CF)" To: [email protected] Sent: Sat Mar 27 08:49:20 SAST 2010 Subject: RE: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Jub Jub prosecutor relieved of duties <SPAN class=344322906-27032010>Cdes the law does not have emotions its approach is based on facts I believe that the reason for the two to be given bail the court look into their personal circumstance and the nature of crime.Even though they are charge of murder but we all know that it was not intentional.<SPAN class=344322906-27032010>therefore refusing bail was not in the interest of the state,we must remember that the granting of bail does not mean acquittal to the charge but it means that while the investigations and prosecution still busy preparing the trial the accused person should be free to live normal life . <SPAN class=344322906-27032010>As we know it may take more than six months before the matter come to trial so you can not keep person in prison while the investigation still continue provided that the accused person meet the minimum requirements to be granted bail. <SPAN class=344322906-27032010>We must also know that the Dept of correctional services have capacity problem there arte many people who are in the prison cells with minor crime as the country we have a problem of over crowding in in the prison cells.<SPAN class=344322906-27032010>so the magistrate looked into number of factors before granting the bail to the two. From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Tumi GopaneSent: 26/03/2010 05:17 PMTo: Sithembewena tsembeyi; [email protected]: RE: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Jub Jub prosecutor relieved of duties My point is very simple. I do not think that it is appropriate to give a man bail who “accidentally” killed four kids whilst engaging in illegal activities in the first place. These deaths were not as a result of a sober hard working man driving home from work to see his family. Bail is not only a function of flight risk as far as I understand the law. The man that then rightfully decides to oppose bail; who is certainly a farther and probably a grandfather is then coincidentally shuffled around and moved from the case. To me those are signs of slumping into a Banana Republic as a country; where seemingly who you know and position in society seemingly determine how the law is applied on you. Instead of disagreeing with me logically or factually where you have facts, you engage in personal attacks. This is very characteristic of people who cannot use logic and facts to debate issues, but rather divert the discussion into unnecessary personal and emotional attacks. I am sorry but I do not have the time nor the energy to invest in personal attacking discussions. Regards, Tumelo G. From: Sithembewena tsembeyi To: [email protected] Sent: Fri Mar 26 16:46:25 SAST 2010 Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Jub Jub prosecutor relieved of duties DIV { MARGIN: 0px } Ideological Vendor based on rhetoric, compradorial Ideological hermaphrodite logic again here you go.Learn to discuss with content failure to that we would request VC to use the Force removal from this blog.Hasta Siempre la comandante Sithembewena Tsembeyi<SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Socialismo o Muerte <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif"> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2> From: Tumi Gopane <[email protected]><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To: Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]>; [email protected]<SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent: Fri, March 26, 2010 4:37:25 PMSubject: RE: [YCLSA Discussion] Jub Jub prosecutor relieved of dutiesBanana Republic based on the Lamprecht issue, here we come. From: Dominic Tweedie To: [email protected] Sent: Fri Mar 26 15:41:30 SAST 2010 Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] Jub Jub prosecutor relieved of duties <IMG height=97 alt="News24 banner" src="cid:[email protected]" width=186> <FONT face=Calibri>Jub Jub prosecutor relieved of duties Sonja Carstens en Dani?lla du Plooy, Beeld, Johannesburg, 25 March 2010 Johannesburg - A chief State prosecutor has been relieved of his duties after he refused to execute the orders of Menzi Simelane, head of the National Prosecuting Authority (NPA). The orders were that he should not contest bail for the musician Jub Jub. Andr? (Lampies) Lambrecht, 60, chief State prosecutor of the West Rand, was given the order three times. Gladstone Maema, acting director of public prosecution (DPP) in Gauteng, phoned Lambrecht twice to say Simelane had given the order. Maema repeated the order to Lambrecht for the third time in person. Lambrecht refused to execute the order unless he received it in writing, which he did not receive. Lambrecht didn't respond to Simelane's verbal order, and the State did oppose Jub Jub's bail application. Visit from Malema On Friday Magistrate Andr? Auret granted bail of R10 000 to Jub Jub (Molemo Maarohanye). The hip hop star is facing murder charges since he was involved in a car race which ended in a crash which killed four schoolboys in Soweto. One day before Jub Jub's bail application was set to begin, he received a visit in detention from Julius Malema, president of the ANC Youth League. Maema gave Lambrecht a letter on Tuesday in which he was relieved of his managerial duties and told to work as a prosecutor in court. No reasons were given. Lambrecht has been chief State prosecutor of the West Rand for the past ten years. The prosecutors of Krugersdorp, Soweto, Randfontein and Roodepoort, among others, fall under him. Magistrate Gert Jonker, chief magistrate of Johannesburg, said in response to a question that the court management was informed on Thursday morning that Lambrecht has been relieved of his managerial duties. "I'm shocked. He was an extremely capable chief prosecutor." 'Unreasonable treatment' Manie de Clercq, deputy head manager of the Public Servants Association (PSA), said the case has been reported to the civil service union. The union will be taking steps in accordance with the Labour Act to support Lambrecht with the "unreasonable treatment" he received from his employer. Lambrecht was demoted without any disciplinary steps taken against him. Jan Henning, former deputy chief of the NPA, described Lambrecht as "one of the pillars which keeps the prosecuting authority in the lower courts standing". "If that (what happened) is the case, it's a harsh insult to someone who doesn't deserve it at all and to someone who has made a much bigger contribution to the practice of law that those who decided to relieve him of his duties." 'Not about Jub Jub case' When Maema was approached for comment, he said Lambrecht's "move" had nothing to do with the Jub Jub case. "It's part of our strategy to move these people with the expertise to the lower courts because we need them there, and big cases are increasingly being heard in lower courts. "This is something we've been planning for quite some time. Three other people (in similar positions) were also moved to lower courts on the same day." According to Maema, the decision regarding the moves was made before bail was granted in the Jub Jub case. He did admit that he had spoken to Lambrecht about the Jub Jub case and the granting of bail, but said the two issues are not related at all. "As DPP I have to discuss issues such as this (granting of bail and the charges against Jub Jub). We did so, and I communicated the decision to Simelane." Lambrecht declined to comment. - Beeld <SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From: <A href="http://www.news24.com/Content/SouthAfrica/News/1059/35a8c22afa214e949f6b6725bc2c6d74/25-03-2010-11-17/Jub_Jub_prosecutor_relieved_of_duties"; target=_blank>http://www.news24.com/Content/SouthAfrica/News/1059/35a8c22afa214e949f6b6725bc2c6d74/25-03-2010-11-17/Jub_Jub_prosecutor_relieved_of_duties -- You are subscribed. This footer can help you.Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to this message.You can visit the group WEB SITE at <A href="http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum"; target=_blank>http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery options, pages, files and membership.To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] . You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. 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