...which is why I don't pay much heed to the so-called koans a lot of times..but nevertheless, here goes...
--- On Mon, 21/3/11, Edgar Owen <[email protected]> wrote: From: Edgar Owen <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Zen] A true Buddha To: [email protected], [email protected] Received: Monday, 21 March, 2011, 1:48 AM The problem with stories like this is they give the false impression that there is some 'correct' response to such Zen questions and that that response had to have been exactly what Hotei did. --------------------------------------------------------------------- MEL: In my personal opinion, I don't think there's any correct or exact response to any supposedly Zen question. It's what the enquirer makes of it. Some questions also don't make any sense -------------------------------------------------------------------- Stories like this tend to reduce Zen to the level of adolescent oneupmanship - like it's some contest of wills as to whose Zen is 'best' or that there is some test for Zen. ----------------------------------------------------------- MEL: When I first started in Zen and karate those many years ago, I've come across hints of at least the occassional bitch-fight that take place amongst so-called spiritual individuals, and those who regarded themselves as experts tend to hide under the guise of sacredness in their withdrawal and silence. Nevertheless, the contest of whose 'enlightenment' was better never went away I doubt that anyone be they the priesthood, laity, or budo masters would be entirely free from dualistic notions such as the above. However, I personally didn't see any such competition from the koan presented below --------------------------------------------------------------------- There is absolutely no way to determine Hotei's Zen from such a story since any idiot could have performed exactly the same actions. Thus the story becomes entirely a matter of faith rather than Zen... The author tells us Hotei had Zen and we are supposed to accept it on faith. Meaningless. The only way would to have actually been there and had the realization oneself... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- MEL:...and this is where the problem comes in when one asks for specific instructions or answers... I've just started going through (Shunryu)Suzuki-sensei's work NOT ALWAYS SO, and I'm not sure I'm going to like it's set-up. ZEN MIND BEGINNER'S MIND would have been considered by many as vague and lacking specific directions, whilst the former might have across as otherwise to some. I could be wrong in this initial assumption but I guess I'll know soon enough. Katagiri-sensei was apparently supportive of the 'you must say something' kind of method with Zen education, but I'd personally bet on what I consider the more conservative and safe manner of leaving things with no specifics just as (Shunryu)Suzuki-sensei had put it in his initial book, as giving specifics has apparently its danger of making students and other seekers get attached to actual words or theories. Without specifics, the way is much more open with more options ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There is 100% Zen in every occurrence, no matter what it is or what one does. There is nothing that is not Zen. The only question is whether that Zen is realized by those present.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------- MEL: I have no reply for the first 2 sentences...but the third brings the point of the desire for realization.... Many had spoken of this enlightenment or realization since the arrival of DT Suzuki on the world's spiritual centerstage. It's not that such 'achievement' has no value, but openly aiming for it is misdirected, and this is also one of those dangers the enquiring public should be informed about ------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mar 20, 2011, at 9:07 AM, Guy wrote: Hotei was walking along the road with his sack over his shoulder when he was approached by a buddhist master. "What is your understanding of buddhism?" asked the master; to which Hotei plopped his bag on the ground. "Fine", replied the master. "What is the actualization of buddhism?" Hotei picks up his bag and happily walks down the road. Had he spoken a single word he would have failed the questions, his action in the moment spoke louder. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ MEL: This is just me but I tend to regard most enquiries I've had so far on the true understanding of Buddhism as odd. I get this question a lot from nonBuddhists(especially Christians and Muslims). This is where I step out and away from the usual (Shunryu)Suzuki-sensei line and give an answer that depends on the mentality of the questioner, ala Deshimaru-sensei I don't put morals such as peaceful intentions or harmony with the Zen teachings, and I doubt that Deshimaru-sensei did either. I was shocked in the beginning when he said that sometimes one has to even lie or make up something to give an answer, but it didn't take me long to work out where this was coming from. In my travels, I've come across the likes of academics, the illiterate(ignorant, more likely), the religious from the Big 3 Semite factions, and so on who ask questions on Buddhism. I noticed a lot that many of such do not really listen to my own understanding of things. Am I saying here that I'm enlightened? Of course not, and I never really knew or paid attention to what enlightenment was all about, including to this day. However, a typical Zen maniac can easily discern the chugs and other noises of the mind of the enquirer which are usually ready and prepared answers, before the 'maniac' concerned has even finished the sentence in answering the enquiry. In other words, how can one listen when one is already filled with the so-called answers? That has been my experience. What do I do? I keep the answers brief whether they make sense or not, and walk away...or I turn it into a joke...and then walk away As I indicated above, there are no specifics in Zen because each and every individual is built differently. One particular woman who was a devout of the Protestant faith finally read me not after getting vague or even odd answers from me, but actually seeing how I react to daily living. Sometimes, words are useless. I can now understand why a Japanese martial arts instructor would get annoyed with me concerning a certain teaching and hiss,"Watch!"...and then actually demonstrate the technique Just my thoughts Buddha be praised Mel
