Ed, The point of my post wasn't really about the absolute or relative. It was more about seeing the answer Hotei gave. What did the Buddhist master infer from his actions that he approved of as an answer?
And yes, he was partly acting out of intellect, but from a point of pranja; of which intellect IS part of. Just not the total thing. As far as clearing up the whole absolute/reletive thing, here it goes. The reletive is straightforword. You're you, I'm me, that's a dog humping a chicken. Reality exist. The Absolute is simply this moment before thought, the same as the state of zazen. It exist before perception because it happens way too fast for us to see it. but the moment happens, otherwise we could never exist. Without time and place nothing can "be". Our perceptive mind is akin to an astronomer viewing a telescope into deep space and seeing the Universe just after it was created. This occurs because it takes light billions of years to cross the Universe. However, at this very moment across the galaxy, very different things exist. What we see now as gaseous clouds have probably settled into galaxies with stars and orbiting planets. Light entering your eyes and being processed by the brain is the same gap. Just not as long of a gap. So therefore you could never really know what's right in front of your eyes.Perception is a delusion. Be well Guy --- In [email protected], "ED" <seacrofter001@...> wrote: > > > > --- In [email protected], "Guy" <anatmansurf@> wrote: > > > > Wow, lots of different points of view expressed here. Maybe i should > just further explain. > > > > Hotei answered the master with real action in the moment, not an > intellectualization of it. Real action in the here and now is > Buddhism/Reality. Hotei could have done any number of things, as long as > they were real action in the moment. > > Guy, > > OTOH, Hotei's response may have been an acting out of an intellectual > position, as Hotei must have known that the preferred wont in Zen is to > act out rather than articulate. > > > > I simply wanted to see others reaction to what i consider a great > story that encapsulates what Zen really is at a human level (the > relative truth as opposed to the Absolute truth). > > > > Be well, Guy > > > > "Relative truth is conventional or empirical truth - that experienced by > the senses, whereas, the ultimate truth can only be realized by > transcending concepts through intuitive insight." > http://www.urbandharma.org/udnl2/nl031604.html > <http://www.urbandharma.org/udnl2/nl031604.html> > > Guy, can you explain how this delightful story helps us discriminate > between relative and abolute truth, especially as only a very small > minority of us, and it is not known for certain who they are, have > developed intuitive insight? > > Thanks, and be well, ED > > PS: Some of us hold that 'dharma combat' or 'mondo' between students is > an acceptable activity. > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
