Mike, If all phenomena are determined, what is the cause-and-effect of a roulette? Anthony
--- On Sun, 3/4/11, mike brown <[email protected]> wrote: From: mike brown <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better a Roulette To: [email protected] Date: Sunday, 3 April, 2011, 5:01 PM Steve, I'm not so sure that science has proven false the idea that all phenomena are strictly determined. I think the jury is still out on that one. It's true that what happens in the micro, quantum world is random and unpredictable, but not so in the macro-universe. Determinism seems to play a major role in life. Take a look at environmental determinism. The cultural life of mountain people, being shaped by the mountains, is different from the culture of fishing villages, being shaped by close proximity to the sea. Culture itself plays a key role in determining the social and psychological life of an individual. Likewise, being 6ft 2 and 200lbs it is highly unlikely I'll ever be a horse jockey. Also, isn't it one of the core tenents of Zen/emptiness that there is no object or phenomena that is self-created and independent - everything is interdependent? Speaking for myself, I have no fixed position on these questions. I do believe, however, there is a difference in determinism and self-determinism (as opposed to predestination) and we do make choices (freewill) that can influence the future. Mike From: SteveW <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sun, 3 April, 2011 13:21:34 Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better a Roulette --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@...> wrote: > > Steve, > Â > I ask you which one of the four you support. > Â > '1' was missing. I put it back. > Â > Anthony > Hi Anthony. In my opinion, reality is a mixture of chance and necessity. Any account of reality must take into account uncertainty and non-locality. These two facts have been scientifically established beyond a reasonable doubt, imo. This is why I don't endorse Advaita Vedanta. Advaita Vedanta asserts that the world is an unreal appearance superimposed upon the face of static Being. Advaita Vedanta believes in strict determinism. If you read Be As You Are by Ramana Maharshi's student David Godman you will see that Maharshi believed that all phenomena are strictly determined. Modern physics has proven him wrong. For a while, some hoped that David Bohm's deterministic hidden variables model might prove to be true, but few now accept it. As the physicist Paul Davies comments in his book The Mind of God, the new physics has driven the final nail in the coffin of strict determinism. Some shit just happens, for no reason that can be given. You know, Zen people don't actually give a philosophical explanation for existence, but the Non-Dual Hindu traditions do. IMO, in comparing Advaita Vedanta with Kashmir Shaivism, Kashmir Shaivism is actually more in accord with the facts. Steve > > > >
